Perhaps I'm over thinking this, but the .458 lott case just visually seems small for a 500gr bullet.
But when talking popular .458's, the lott in my mind seems to be near the front of the pack. So popularity/availability is something to consider,

So if you wanted more, would you go with something like a .450 Rigby? a bigger case but not very popular/available at the random gas station...? or would it mean going to something larger altogether like a 505 gibbs etc...?

ideas/suggestions

I guess there is the .460wby?

I guess it's the battle between what I consider best round vs. best/popular/available.

btw I haven't talked myself out of the .458 lott, I find myself always coming back to it.

Thanks in advance.

What's the biggest cartridge you've ever fired?

George

458 lott -- can be loaded down to 45 ACP, or up to hippostomper - lots of bullets, from 180gr cast to 600gr jacketed, and tons of load data...

in fact, its the second best 45 caliber bolt gun cartridge, imnsho.. right behind the 458 AccRel

I know someone that will sell you a ruger 458 lott for a great price

Yes, the .450 Rigby would be my choice.

If you are experienced & comfortable with a Lott and want more in a bolt gun, I would choose a 500A2, 500Mbogo or 500AR. If you have never tried a Lott or other rifle with similar power, I would do so before trying something bigger.

How much more than the Lott do you want? What do you specifically want to be able to do? For example drive 500gr bullets faster, or go up to 550 to 600gr?

The Lott and thr Ackley are the largest I've shot and to me that was plenty, but not uncomfortable for a short session. The 450 Rigby Rimless does seem to be the cartridge of choice here these days for guys wanting "more".

If you are thinking big and heavy bullets with alot of energy then you are talking mostly close range.In this case you should consider a double rifle and therefore need to look at DR cartridges.
The Lott is the last step before you get into the DR zone.
The bolt action Lott will allow for high energy big bullet for medium range- 100yds-150yds???.

If I was to go bigger than 458LOTT, I would consider a 500Jeffery or better still a 470NE or 500NE.
I would not go with a larger capacity 45cal case because I see no practical positives in pushing a projectile any faster than what can be achieved with the LOTT.

IMHO the 450 Rigby does it all.The case is basically the same platform for the 450 Dakota and 460 Weatherby. Plenty of case capacity to reach significant velocity without pressure issues and will easily take 550 grain bullets. Reloading componants are easy to find and you have a huge selection of 458 bullets.

So much to take into consideration when you get to these power levels because a lot of things change. First, do want more speed with the same bullets or do you want more power or momentum? You can shoot 458 bullets a lot faster or you can shoot bigger heavier bullets the same speed or slower. Recoil velocity is a real issue at these power levels.

Will you use a muzzle brake or shoot a bare muzzle? You have a lot more choices if you shoot a brake if you can stand the obnoxiousness of them. I found out I can't shoot anything well faster than a Lott without a brake and I can't stand brakes so I went for bigger bullets at moderate speeds.

550 mag based on the 505 gibbs, 470 mombogo based on the rigby, lots of bullets in the 470 includeing Hornady pistol bullets for low power pig and deer stomping.

JD

quote:

Originally posted by 577DoubleNitro:

...or would it mean going to something larger altogether like a 505 Gibbs etc...?

+1

quote:

tiggertate: You can shoot 458 bullets a lot faster or you can shoot bigger heavier bullets the same speed or slower. Recoil velocity is a real issue at these power levels.

The reason I would go to a 50 cal for more power.

I would also recommend the 450 Rigby.

2400fps with 500 grain bullets is easy, with no pressure issues

brass is available

can go up to 600 grain bullets if you desire (plenty of case capacity)

lots of "cheap" .458 caliber bullets available for practice and plinking

load it up or down

the cartridge feeds really well

easy to build a gun that will hold 4 down

easy to build a gun that comes in at ~10lbs (that is all I want to carry in 110 degree heat)

for a big bore it shoots really flat



I have used it to literally put an elephant on her knees with a high shoulder shot (she never moved) and then brained her with the second shot.


only real negative "is" you really need a magnum length action

My question would be "Why do I need more than what the 458 Lott provides?"

465H&H

You say you keep coming back to the 458 Lott. Maybe your subconscious is trying to tell you something.

I shoot a Dakota Safari 458 Lott that weighs exactly 8.5 lbs. with no scope/rings/bases, and I shoot it just that way with open sights (aperture). What a joy to carry. I have larger calibers (505 Gibbs and 470 Capstick), but those rifles weigh more. Like you, I keep coming back to the 458 Lott. I'm not a big person (5'7" and I weigh 160 lbs.) so rifle weight means a lot to me, especially carrying one all day in Africa.

Surefire7

Here is a suggestion. Have AHR make you 458 Lott grade 2 or 3 upgrade on a CZ 550 platform. Get your LOP; drop at Comb and Heel tailed to your dimensions. This should help control recoil. You can easily get 5 down in a magazine +1 in the chamber of Lott cartridges in the CZ. Tons of firepower!!
Shoot 450 gr TSX's, NF's or Swifts @2400FPS out of a 23" pipe. Now you have a handy, legitimate 200 yard extremely reliable gun that I cannot imagine anything standing up to and it will not break the bank.

.50 cals are definitely a step up in stopping power.

My choices in a bolt action would be:

1).50 MDM made by Michael 458
2).500 Jeffrey
3).505 Gibbs

With all due respect, the 500a2 is a serious step up in power, yet it's relatively easy to make, reload for and it's effect on animals is very impressive. If you can shoot a Zlott well you will have no issues with the 500a2. Building one on a cz550 is also very affordable. Brass is cheap and power is a serious step up over a Lott.-Rob

All else equal, .510 beats .458. No doubt!

But .458 at 2,500 fps also beats .458 at 2,300 fps.

If I want a .458, I must say that I want a faster one.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

.50 cals are definitely a step up in stopping power.

+1

550 Gibbs, and never look back at those puny 45 caliber toys...

700 Nitro will make you "king of the range".

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
With all due respect, the 500a2 is a serious step up in power, yet it's relatively easy to make, reload for and it's effect on animals is very impressive. If you can shoot a Zlott well you will have no issues with the 500a2. Building one on a cz550 is also very affordable. Brass is cheap and power is a serious step up over a Lott.-Rob

This is the direction that I went, and I'm very happy with my choice. Bear in mind that components for chamberings beyond this point become quite expensive and require significant advance planning.

Baised on ACTUAL shooting of a few elephants, and a few buffalo, with some plains game, like giraffe, eland, and a few deer and wild pigs, thrown in, just for fun,a .458 bullet from 480 to 500grains at @2150fps, is plenty perfect.

Well, 577DoubleNitro,

your handle suggests that you want more than the 458 Lott, too.

I was faced with a similar decision two years ago.
Should I get a CZ550 in either 458Win or 458 Lott and have it rechambered to 450 Rigby?
Or should I get a standard length action and build a 500AccRel?

Since I already had some 416Rigbys, I decided that shooting .458 bullets would not be much of a step up and I wasn't looking for another CZ550 long rifle, so .510" appealed. I went with the 500AccRel over the 500A2 (belted Rigby size) or 500Mbogo (beltless Rigby size), because I only wanted 7000 ftlbs of muzzle energy in an easy carrying rifle, standard length action. I got it. (Unfortunately, I am now having it rebarreled in order to have a .25" freebore instead of a 1.25" freebore.) Headstamped brass is available through Quality Cartridge, though it can apparently be fireformed from Lapua, if careful.

What about the 458 Express 3"? Apparently fills the CZ550 magazine without cartridge slap, same performance as the Lott at lower pressure and no powder compression or betters the performance if wanted. Certainly looks a more impressive cartridge with the heavy 458 bullet.

Or is availability of factory ammo or at least head-stamped brass a prerequisite?

A .458 Lott can be had for cheap.
Get a used one and try it out. Get rid of it if you don't like it.

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:
What about the 458 Express 3"? Apparently fills the CZ550 magazine without cartridge slap, same performance as the Lott at lower pressure and no powder compression or betters the performance if wanted. Certainly looks a more impressive cartridge with the heavy 458 bullet.

Or is availability of factory ammo or at least head-stamped brass a prerequisite?

Technically it is more than the Lott, but not significantly so. It only has 8 grains more powder capacity.

If someone wants MORE than the Lott, and that can be a good call, I would recommend a 50 cal .510" bolt rifle (A2, AccRel, Jeffrey, Mbogo), or a 458 of Rigby, Dakota, Weatherby class.
Those are all a level up, and their first shot will do more with well-constructed bullets.

George raised a very valid point and I note .577 hasn't been back. Personally, my Lott is more than I need and about all I can handle. I am getting old.

quote:

Originally posted by 577DoubleNitro:
Perhaps I'm over thinking this, but the .458 lott case just visually seems small for a 500gr bullet.
But when talking popular .458's, the lott in my mind seems to be near the front of the pack. So popularity/availability is something to consider,

So if you wanted more, would you go with something like a .450 Rigby? a bigger case but not very popular/available at the random gas station...? or would it mean going to something larger altogether like a 505 gibbs etc...?

ideas/suggestions

I guess there is the .460wby?

I guess it's the battle between what I consider best round vs. best/popular/available.

btw I haven't talked myself out of the .458 lott, I find myself always coming back to it.

Thanks in advance.

I don't know about you, but my CZ 458 Lott is all I want to shoot. Factory loads will pretty much turn you cross eyed. Working up reduced loads are not bad on the shoulder though.

quote:

Originally posted by PBens:

quote:

Originally posted by 577DoubleNitro:
Perhaps I'm over thinking this, but the .458 lott case just visually seems small for a 500gr bullet.
But when talking popular .458's, the lott in my mind seems to be near the front of the pack. So popularity/availability is something to consider,

So if you wanted more, would you go with something like a .450 Rigby? a bigger case but not very popular/available at the random gas station...? or would it mean going to something larger altogether like a 505 gibbs etc...?

ideas/suggestions

I guess there is the .460wby?

I guess it's the battle between what I consider best round vs. best/popular/available.

btw I haven't talked myself out of the .458 lott, I find myself always coming back to it.

Thanks in advance.

I don't know about you, but my CZ 458 Lott is all I want to shoot. Factory loads will pretty much turn you cross eyed. Working up reduced loads are not bad on the shoulder though.

Even if this thread were not named "more than a .458 Lott"
you want more than the .458 Lott!

these 500's do not make one crosseyed. The Nyati is an inexpensive build and can produce 7000 ftlbs. Anything that can punch a buffalo and demand its attention is satisfying.

quote:

If someone wants MORE than the Lott, and that can be a good call, I would recommend a 50 cal .510" bolt rifle (A2, AccRel, Jeffrey, Mbogo), or a 458 of Rigby, Dakota, Weatherby class.
Those are all a level up, and their first shot will do more with well-constructed bullets.

I have several 458 Lott's and when I wanted more power I stepped up to the CZ in 505 Gbbs and am quite happy with that choice. More power and a bit of nostalgia...all in a fine rifle.