I was just thinking. We've already conceived of the 1.008" Roy Vincent Buffalo Thumper, but what about a true Elephant Stomper? One that will charge stop the monster at 10yds or less. Purely for emergency use, as the bullet will have plain cylindrical shape, or even perhaps an inverted shape (for maximum spread of the shot upon contact) with an enormous load of fast-burner powder behind it. Charge Stopping elephants and angry Barbarians alike!

The calibre would be 1.5" (35MM) Bottlnecked, with a powder chamber about 2.5" (60MM)
The Chamber for powder would be 12" (300MM)
And a funky little bullet about 3" long (75MM)
I figure, we'd load it with a shitload of the fastest burner (I'm no powder expert, please, what burns the fastest, puts out the most energy?)
A Barrel about 36" in length, Single shot, straight bolt action, mounted on a tripod. Overall weight of rifle: Roughly 50 lbs. This thing would make hunting Elephants, cape buffalo, or hippo much safer at 10yds or less and much easier as well.

[ 03-15-2003, 15:51: Message edited by: Oblivion ]

How do you lure the elephant within 10 yards of the tripod?

Actually, Sir Samuel Baker and a few others used 2-bore rifles in the late 19th Century that weren't too far from this. He complained that the gun "spun him around two or three times and gave him violent headaches and nosebleed for about twenty minutes" whenever he fired it. He named his gun "Baby".

DHA reincarnated?-Rob

Is this guy real, he needs to get a check on his language real quick cause sometimes little ones like to see and read what I'm up to on the computer, and I'm only too happy to show them. Pointing them in the right direction you know? Oblivion............ add something usefull or insightfull or go AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Damn trolls

I agree, we need to keep it clean for the young'uns....Oblivion is a good name apparantly. It also displays a disrespect for a grand animal IMHO...He has obviously never stood in front of that mighty beast.

Lets just cut to the chaf & get a M/203 granade launcher. That will work every time. Recoil isn't that bad either.

profile:
Member Status: New Member
Member Number: 11879
Registered: 03-14-2003
Posts: 7
Email Address: oblivion437@hotmail.com
Location: Nunda, NY
Occupation: Programmer
Interests: Programming, Science Fiction, Urban Terror
Birth Date: 12-13-1986
AIM ID: oblivion437

This accounts for the language issues!

A rifle that weighs 50 lbs for emergencies,such as a charging elephant. I dont have any elephant hunting expireince,but thisis pure stupidity.
Fast burning powder does not produce the energy you are looking for. What do you propose,setting your thumper up on a tripod,enticing an elephant to charge or whatever. then what happens when you miss? 10 yds is a very short distance.Just my opinion.

Oblivion,

Read more.

Type less.

Larry

Sorry, it was just a crazy idea. I'll correct the grammatical issues. I apologize for them.

Sigh.

Saeed, to my dismay I find that currently the "ignore" option only affects private messages.

Is there anyway that it could be extended such that posts by somebody (oh let's say, "Oblivion" as a random example ), would simply be invisible to me?

Because some gentlemen here seem unable to resist "feeding the trolls", this sure would be a great option!

The best way would be to set this up to block an IP address so when a troll changes member names, he would still remain blocked (as least for the many posters with fixed IP addresses, for the users with dynamic IP address we would have to block each alias one by one...).

jpb

[ 03-16-2003, 16:29: Message edited by: jpb ]

Oblivion- Look it's not your age,we were all teenagers once equally fasinated by firearms! The issue is your topic that's wrong. This site isn't about make-believe military weopons; it's about sharing information on reality based large bore rifles and pistols and having some decent engineering and science based dialog about them. You will notice that most folks here are avid big game hunters and actually use these rifles. Yes it get's out there sometimes, but we generally stay away from the rediculous. Many folks here are well respected professionals and take this topic extremely seriously. Your posts were offensive to many and we are sensitive to Trolls who waste everyones time.! The reality of actually facing an enraged dangerous animal(endangered-I think not) with a appropriate firearm is what we are all about. Not fantasy ,land military weopons designed to kill people.Your welcome to post here, but stick to topics that don't offend. That's some good advice.-Rob

Oblivion - with the profile you have listed and the idea you proposed, what type of response did you expect? KMule

Oblivion... In all seriousness, we have a humor section and a technology section for this forum, you will get less flak on them for this kinda topic... but those forums are less popular.
Just out of curiosity... do you own any firearms? Do you hunt or target shoot? what are some of your interests? Are your parents against you owning guns? I know at a time my father was not against me owning firearms but questioned why a 15 year old needed a 375 H&H.

Oblivion

Nice to have you on board. I don't find anything offensive about your post, but I am not surprised at the replies, either.

Welcome, and I hope that you are able to learn a lot from the rest of us.

Oblivion:

Welcome to the old boys club, combined with the typical rookie hazing stuff.
You are getting hazed for language? Typical troll response, and in this case, you are not the troll.

Walter one time tried to calm me down a bit, since I told a couple guys off, and while we try and keep the language presentable, it really takes EXTREME vileness for Saeed to ban anyone.

What has really happened is you stepped on an open nerve. I know it sounds weird, but all these guys pay homage to the game they kill by giving it respect, and in their eyes, a clean, fair death.

Also for some reason, crossing the line between military and hunting rifles also sets off some sort of nerve in many here.

I realize that the 600OK may have ballistics similar to a 50 BMG round, but, it's a no-no here
to apply that technology to killing elephants, etc. It's not sporting...

Also there is a difference between hunting, and sniping. While all these guys want DG rifles that shoot .5 inches at 300 yards(exaggerated for effect) actually using mil technology capable of such shots is a no-no.

Part of this might stem from the difficulty in getting such weapons into the corrupt african countries, where the Mugabes of the world don't want 50 caliber machine gun based rifles capable of 1500 yard kills pointed at their pillaged and raped crowns, sitting on their crooked heads...

Also, there is a major concern about not allowing anti-gun folks something to hang their hats on, and diminish or beseiged 2nd amendment even more.

What you are after is a 2 bore or 4 bore rifle.
They already exist, and I believe the specs on a 2 bore are about 1.4 inch diameter bullet, 3550 grain lead ball, at about 1500 fps, for about 400 pounds of recoil.

Some guy on on of the African cyberpapers built, and used a 4 bore on cape buffalo. He put in a good shot,but the buffalo still went 60 yards,
even after taking that giant slug.

I figure that if the bull can take one of those, then there is NO REASON, really, for anything much bigger then a 375 H&H, and practice till you can hit exactly what you are aiming at, no matter how fast it charges.

Most of this stuff is boys with toys, and who has the biggest johnson type of stuff.

Most of these guys have so many rifles they don't have time to shootem all, and want to see who dies with the most toys.

However, there is a core group here that has amazing knowledge, and if you can wade through the bullcrap, we need new, younger members to carry on the 2nd amendment.

By the way, posting your personal information is a low blow, and a real troll. Shame on whoever did that. Nothing wrong with being young. We need more young people, so this place doesn't start having the attraction of an elephant burial ground...

Well, I didn't realize it was so serious. I'm not a hunter. I own a few guns, mixed calibers, but I just target shoot. Sorry if I've made it seem like I don't respect the firearms culture. I do, and I only wanted to contribute something of a design. After running those measurements through a CAD program, I found the bullet to look like an AA round. At that point, I'd seen it was a bad idea. Well, I apologize for everyone's feelings I've hurt and such, no hard feelings, okay?
EDIT: Spelling and such

[ 03-17-2003, 03:23: Message edited by: Oblivion ]

Oblivion,
And so you learn, Grasshopper. Yeah, we're really serious on the subject here, but I think I detect in your first posting an attempt to belong. Good! Now think about the question, "Just because something is possible, is it really a good idea?" This forum subject is one that fascinates for many reasons but raw technology is rather low on the priorty list. Read the comments of guys even older than me who have been to Africa more often than I have. Try getting into their heads and understanding where they're coming from. Then go to the library and check out every book on African hunting you can find. You've got a good, well-paying trade so someday you might just make the trip yourself . . . and once you do, you'll understand the sensitive nerves. You might just get that way yourself.

Sounds to me like the kids got the big bore fever pretty bad huh? Ahhhhhh yes I remember being there too!!! Oblivion, sounds to me like you need to run out and get yourself a .375 H&H pronto. That's about the only cure for the fever. Just be careful though because once you buy one it takes over then before you know it your cabnet is full of grossly over powered weapons like mine. What a wonderful sickness. Take a box of 300 grainers and call me in the morning. Take er' easy.

Don't Sweat it to much, most of the guys here are a pretty good. They take there hunting very seriously. In many ways it defines who they and myself are. There is nothing wrong with trying to come up with new cartridges, Winchester dose it all the time, ie .300 WSM. While your cartridge would have little merit for anything, most 50 cal is about as big as it gets, except for the 600 and 700 Nitro Express. The 700 is fairly new cartridge. Its only been around for 14 years or so. I would guess that in the whole world there maybe 30 or 40 rifles so chanbered. British and American Double's. Now the 600 has been around for Close to 90 years now and I don't think there is a 100 rifles so chambered. It becomes a trade off, if the gun weighs to much, a 700 come in at 19 lbs, it makes it heavy to carry all day in the heat, any lighter and it becomes a recoil problem. Where the real revolution is, is in the bullet. Today bullets for hunting are at near perfection. I can take a 338 Winchester and by loading good bullets, I could go and shoot every big game animal on the planet, and do it with a rifle that I can carry and shoot well. Any way your cartridge would not do anything that is not being done with a 50 Browning. And for real long shooting the Army likes the 120 mm Sabot out of the M-1-A 1 Abrams. They shoot a long way with those.

27 miles with the 105mm sabot. 29 lb at 3700 fps, IIRC.

Excellent desert round for armour.

Got any specs on the 120 MM?
s

What about something closer to, say, .8" Similar proportions to .700NE, but in .800, and slightly longer, proportionately? The bullet would also be heavier, and perhaps longer. This is more acceptable. It too is an emergency game rifle, but to be fired from the shoulder, without fatal injury this time!

Oblivion,
On the off chance you are a serious beginner and not a troll.
-You can go as big as you want.I know someone with a 727/50BMG. Or build a civil war mountain howitzer replica. 39" barrel, 4 inch bore and over 100,000ftlbs energy with solid ball, or a shot load that fires 200 .69 cal balls at once.Get a few guys to wheel it after the game and take out a whole herd of deer on the next hillside.

Hunters are not limited by their imaginations, more by manageability(and other stuff like ethics etc. ). ie Can you carry it. Can you fire it from the shoulder, can you bring it up to the shoulder fast enough in an emergency on a moving target.
All dictated by rifle weight/recoil.

150 ftlbs of recoil from 20lb firearm is about the most any big game hunter ever repeatedly withstood during their career.ie 4 bores.
Sam Baker never 'withstood' his 2 bore since it braindamaged him.

That leaves your '800 Oblivion' bullet BC .29/1300grains, 250grains of powder at around 1800-1900fps to stay within the above recoil weight limits.

Muzzle energy is 9900ftlbs
Penetration. 19,700ftlbs/sqin.

For the same recoil/weight figures with a 700 nitro rifle you get-

700 nitro.1000 grain bullet at 2350fps.
Muzzle energy .12500ftlbs
Penetration. 25,000ftlbs/sqin

Which 20lb monstrosity do you want to take hunting then?

Karl.

[ 03-24-2003, 07:29: Message edited by: Karl ]

Oblivion,
Once again, just because something is possible, doesn't make it a good idea. In 1898 Rigby introduced the .450 NE with the classic values of approximately a 500 gr. bullet@ approximately 2100 fps for approximately 5,000 ft lbs of energy and a good dose of frontal area. No one has ever made a compelling argument for anything bigger. Yeah, we build other things and occasionally take them out hunting and when they work, we gloat a bit. Did we need it for hunting or for ego gratification? My .450 Rigby (introduced 1995) adds another 1,000 ft lbs to the equation. Does it kill any deader? No. If I could have afforded a double rifle, I wouldn't ever have built the Rigby, I'd just have gotten a .450 NE. Why? It works. It worked in 1898, it works now and will work until something bigger than an elephant shows up on the evolutionary scene. Why go bigger? If it's to demonstrate that you can, fine. Have fun. If it's to take hunting, keep practicalities in mind and stick with what works.