I have sent three emails to H&H and have not yet received any replies. Maybe It was because I didnt send a $2500 FAQ fee. LOL! Anyway I am interested in these new ctgs and wonder if anyone here may have info on them... ballistics, dims, dies avail, singe rounds out there? .. anything at this point would be great. Thanks all.

JAG,

There were a couple of threads on the Africa Forum on them. I think one of our English friends went and visited them and he said the 400 H&H was basically the 375 H&H necked up and the 465 H&H was essentially a 460 Wby necked up but with the H&H type taper.

Mike

Thats about what I thought. I will check out those threads. Thanks.

JAG

JAG

I contacted H&H to get some info too, but got the same potential customer service

I guess their PR service ranks about the same level as their "new" ideas and cartridges.

There is some info on their web site.

A member of AR also has the alias 400 H&H Mag. Email him and see if he can post something on this thread educational for us all.

Good luck

(Personally I think the 404 has more future than a 400 H&H Mag)

Mike

From memory I think the two new cartridges are both rimless "magnums".

[ 09-05-2002, 09:05: Message edited by: NitroExpress.com ]

John,

You could be right but I thought they were belted and received some crtiticism on that basis.

If neck up 375s to 416 as I use to do when I had a 416 Rem, the 416 bullet takes out the shoulder and looks like a sort of tapered version of the 458 Lott.

Mike

/

The .400 H&HBelted Magnum Rimless use a bullet of 400 grains weight with a diameter of .411" and reach a velocity of 760m/s ( 2493 fps)out of a 680 mm barrel lenght.
The .465 H&HBelted Magnum Rimless use a bullet of 480 grains weight with a diameter of .468" and reach a velocity of 700m/s ( 2296 fps)out of a 680 mm barrel lenght.

regards
Robert

Can anyone post a photo of these H&H rounds?

I too would like to see these rounds. I am more interested in learning about them at this point then owning one. H&H is kinda like a pre 64 win, there old stuff in way more impressive then any of there new lines.

Pics, ranage reports anyone?

Well, it took some digging around on Holland & Holland's web site (it wasn't in a very obvious place), but I was finally able to locate this information.

-Bob F.

Link:
http://www.hollandandholland.com/shooting_field/volume11/v11p06.htm

Two new Holland & Holland big-game rifle cartridges

Holland & Holland introduces two new cartridges.
Russell Wilkin explains why



Prompted by the increasing number of inquiries for large calibre rifles from sportsmen seeking to experience the adventure of big-game hunting in Africa we are pleased to announce the introduction of two new cartridges: the .400 H&H Magnum Rimless and the .465 H&H Magnum Rimless.

Managed sport-hunting is now widely accepted as a very effective means of game conservation and the controlled hunting of dangerous big-game is as viable as for other species.

Just as you would expect to increase the power of an ideal cartridge for roe deer to one more suitable for a hardy wild boar, so one needs to make a similar adjustment when hunting a truly formidable quarry such as a Cape buffalo. Although bullet placement will always remain paramount, sheer power in the form of kinetic energy will greatly assist the near instant and humane dispatch of the trophy.

Holland & Holland is renowned for innovation and the development of rifle cartridges, with designs spanning fully 100 years - many by which other designs are judged. The peerless .375 H&H Magnum is such a benchmark and is regarded by the majority of Africa's 'professional hunters' as the most effective single cartridge for all types of hunting. However, as with most all-enveloping designs, some compromise must be accepted. The .375's power to deal with the largest game, though adequate for most circumstances may be considered to provide insufficient leeway when less than perfect circumstances prevail. (The .375 H&H is often the minimum cartridge permitted).

The enduring success of the .375 H&H is based on its performance in the field, where many theoretical predictions do in fact fail. Our new designs - for practical reasons intended for magazine bolt-rifles - build on the .375's proven performance and not on the promises of ever higher velocities and light bullets. Larger calibres with heavy bullets are still the most reliable 'medicine': if there should be any doubt just check to see what your 'professional' uses to back you up.

Cartridge power is calculated at the muzzle as the product of the bullet's weight and its velocity (muzzle-energy, M.E. and velocity, M.V.) although in reality this is not all that counts when hunting, as the energy relies heavily on bullet velocity - which decreases rapidly due to the drag exerted by the air. The faster the velocity the more profound the effect of drag. Aerodynamic bullet shapes may help over extended range but, for relatively close-up big-game, moderate velocity coupled with a heavy-weight bullet is the proven answer.

The .375 H&H propels a 300 grain bullet at a M.V. of 2500 feet/second, generating a M.E. of 4100 foot pounds. The need is for up to 6000 ft/lbs., but for many this is too large an increase. We therefore sought a 'stepping-stone' of around 5000 ft/lbs. These requirements have been satisfied by adopting a .400 calibre .400 grain bullet at 2350 ft/second and a .465 calibre 480 grain bullet at a similar velocity. Most importantly, all three cartridges enable the shooter to take a similar hold or aim-point out to beyond any normal range for hunting big-game: each will mimic the other.

Jag,

If H&H wanted people like 'us' to know about the rounds, they would make the information easily available, instead of keeping it quiet.

Maybe they're just trying to build interest by surrounding the cartridges with an 'air of mystery'


If 577Robert's data is correct, the rounds are ballistically similar to the old .411KDF, .416 Hoffman and Remington, and the .458 Lott.

In any case, the information will become available when they release the round to the industry.
The unusual bullet diameters will be their biggest hurdle.

George

My reamer maker has the correct drawings, so if anyone really wants either one in a rifle, I should be able to put one together. Cases will not be a problem, as I can make form dies and loading dies with a resize reamer and the chamber reamer. I understand the cartridges have recently passed CIP proof tests. (CIP is the European equivalent of SAAMI)

Just need a source of bullets! And barrels! I will check with my barrel maker.

I have corresponded with Mr. Russel Wilkin the Technical Director at Holland on the two cartridges, and I interviewed him at the SCI Convention in Lost Wages this year. They had three rifles to show off: .375 H&H, .400 H&H and .465H&H.

I asked Russell if I could regard the .400 H&H and the .465H&H as magazine rifle equivalents of the .450/.400 and the .465NE, and he allowed as how that was a good comparison. I was brought to that comparison because the new cartridges use the same Woodleigh bullets as the two rimmed rounds. I took some photos of the rifles and the cartridges, and also sent those and some Holland material along to African Hunter for publication.

The status on the .400H&H is they have done a fair amount of test firing of the cartridge as loaded by Wolfgang Romey, and were getting a bit higher velocity than they expected for a 24" barrel -- so they reduced the loading for the next batch! I love that approach.

The .465 is not as far along in development, but it is a .460 Weatherby case given an H&H taper.

Both cartridges are H&H designs: belted for positive headspace control, and tapered for feeding and extraction in hot conditions. They are also loaded assuming the shooter is going to use them in the tropics.

I have not had any trouble corresponding with Holland, but I did get a British gun writer I know to make an introduction for me to the managing director. My idea was to observe the English formalities, and it seems to have worked.

jim dodd

ok guys, I have to wonder now how many H&H people are here on the board. I just received and email form a Mr. Collins asking for my mailng address so he could send my some lit and further info on these ctgs(crossing fingers for a dummy...not likely). Anyway I will pass on the info when it arrives.

JAG,

Sometime ago I emailed H&H about some information on the old 275 H&H. A lengthy reply came back in a day or so.

However, I also emailed them about the 400 and 465 H&Hs and received no reply. Perhaps they receive a lot of enquiries on these calibers and as a result missed a lot of emails.

Mike

oh, YAWN!!! another belted 40 with a 400 at 2350... and a (wow) 465 at 2200.... 416 remington and 470 capstick do better
jeffe

jeffe

There is something that the 2 H&Hs will do that the 416 rem and 470 capstick will not do.

That is, allow a family of calibers.

If you had the money to buy the H&H stuff, would your rather add a 465 H&H or a 470 Capstick to your 375 H&H rifle.

Looking at those photos it appears that H&H has again used the belt to allow a particular case shape to be used.

Mike

If the .465 H&H is a necked up .460 Wby it should do 2700 fps with a 500 or 480 gr. bullet right,,,right !?

Per"460oldballistics"

Per577

Not so because the case has been tapered an given a long shoulder so case capacity is less than the 460 and it will be loaded to lower pressure than the 460

Mike