Hello AR Colleagues,

I finally took the plunge and purchased my first truly big bore, a Ruger RSM in .458 Lott. I have been agonizing over this chambering for months now, ever since my wife and I returned from South Africa for a plains game hunt in May. All of you characters are speaking the truth when you say that once you go to Africa, you WILL be going back. I already have dreams of setting up a DG hunt for Buffalo and possibly some other toothy/tusked critters at some point within the next several years (funds permitting) and I need your help.

There is a highly-probable chance this will not be my only big bore (and who the hell am I kidding- definitely will not) but when I decided on .458 Lott I figured that with handloading, I could make this rifle work for anything I ever planned to hunt, period. That way if I end up with the opportunity for a last-minute hunt on anything, then I would have the one go-to rifle to make that happen. I also have my eye on a .375 H&H, which will probably end up as a custom build in the future.

For my newly-purchased rifle, what are your suggestions on a scope? So far I have been taking a hard look at the Swarovski Z6i 1-6x24 as well as the Nightforce NXS 1-4x24. I'm definitely not limited to these two choices and completely open to suggestions since this is my first foray into DGR territory. Just to get comfortable with this rifle, I believe I'm going to purchase the Leuopold FX2 Ultralight in fixed 2.5 power, as I have read lots of feedback on how this stands up well to heavy-kicking rifles.(If you're feeling extra generous in your responses, I'd gladly take suggestions on rings as well.)

Please let me know if I'm off base here, or if my ideas of optics are sound. I'd love to hear from all of you experienced big-bore shooters, since you have more experience than I will probably ever possess.

Thank you,

John

For DG I like the a Leupold VX-3 1.5-5x

I use that scope on .375H&H, .416 Rigby & .450 Rigby I have never had any problems with it.

I have a Leu VX-3 1,5-5x on my Mauser M03 in Lott and it still works.
However I would like to switch to a Swarovski Z6i EE 1-6x24 when I can afford it. More eye relief is nice, but I dislike the most about the Leupold is the fact that eye relief changes depending on what power you have it at....

Scopes: the Swaro you listed, Leupold VX3 1.5-5 illuminated or VX6 1-6x24, Trijicon 1-4x24.

Illumintated scopes + buffalo = good combination.

Rings: Warne makes great QD rings for Ruger.

Red Dot or a Trijicon 1 x 4. You will need something that gives you plenty of eye relief.
The .458 Lott is the only thing I ever shot that gave me a scope cut off the bench on a regular basis.

Hello, John Galt: for whatever it's worth, I have the Swarovski Z6 1-6x24 EE on both my .458 Lott and my .505 Gibbs. Optics are excellent, scope is rugged, and I have never been smacked on the eyebrow or the forehead with this setup.

I have several of the leupold 2.5's on a variety of heavy rifles and they have given me GREAT service. Last November I shot a nice buff bull in a riverbed right at dark. While the crosshairs were still barely visible I would really have liked to have had a small luminous dot in the center of the crosshairs. Black buffalo, black crosshairs and black of night made for a tough shot. Good Luck!

A couple of thoughts .
The recoil impulse from the Lott is tough on scopes and the heavier they are the more they suffer.
Additionally, any animal you need the Lott for will not need to be magnified more than 2 or 3 X's.

John,

The .458 caliber has likely the widest range of bullet weights compared to any other caliber so yes you could use it as a 'one all' rifle for any hunting you might want to do...

I have a custom .500/338 Lapua Magnum chambered rifle being built and already have a Minox ZA-5 1.5-8x32mm variable rifle scope to use on it with a backup Nikon African 1-4x22mm variable scope; both scopes using Talley QR rings. The Minox weights the same as the Nikon, both scopes have the German #4 reticle, and both scopes have a static 4" eye relief through the entire variable range.

I went with the Nikon African 1-4x20 w/#4 German retical. Great eye relief.

A sturdy/tough scope does not need to cost a $$$$.

Keith

For me eye relief is key. While I like the European scopes I had great succes in Africa with Leupold Vari X-III 1,5-4x20. For my new Lott I ordered 3x20 from the Leupold custom shop and the 1,75-6.x32. I really thought long about it but in the end eye relief was the priority.

I have the Leupold VX-3 1.5x5 on two 458 Lott's, a 375 Ruger Alaskan and my CZ 505 Gibbs. About as good as it gets for the $$ spent.

Thanks for the feedback, everyone! I'm going to take a hard look at the Leupold VX3 1.5-5 illuminated as well as the VX6 1-6 illuminated. I'll probably eventually end up with a Swaro Z6 EE when funding permits and relegate the Leupold as the backup optic. Think I'm going with Warne QD rings as well!

Regards,

John

I personally really like the Swarovski Z6i 1-6 x24. I have it mounted on my Winchester m70 in 416 rem mag. I probably should have bought the EE model but I was told the standard one would be sufficient. No issues yet. Used it on my buffalo hippo and puku. Optics are excellent as is the illuminated reticle.

Swarovski Z6 1-6x24 CD EE on my .505 Gibbs; no scope-bites whatsoever.

I took the Swarovski off my 458 Lott rifle and replaced it with a Trijicon. Great improvement!

Trijicon is military tough and the green dot keeps the crosshairs from fading and getting lost against an also black animal such as buff.

415sbaird:
I have always been tempted by the trijicons but in my comparisons it seems to me that the swarovski glass is better. Did your swarovski have an illuminated reticle? If it didn't then I can see how it was a "great improvement". If it did, does the green dot make a big difference compared to the brightness adjustable red dot of the swarovski?
Thanks

bgomez. --

I don't have any experience with battery illuminated scopes, but I do own several non-illuminated Swarovski scopes. Yes, they do have better glass (coatings) than the Trijicon. My Zeiss scopes are better in this department, too. Side by side, I can tell a difference between the Trijicon and the expensive European scopes, probably due to their better coatings. And since my vision has never been all that great, I have an appreciation for superior glass when the distances are long. To be fair though, Trijicon glass is not bad at all, and completely suitable.

My mule deer rifles that I use for the long distance shots here where I live all have the best glass such as Swarovski and Schmidt and Bender. You can count the points better with the brightest images.

My 458 Lott rifle is what I have successfully used on DG at ranges typically inside 100 yds. Good glass is just not as important here. It's nice, just not as important. Nor is light gathering ability, since DG hunting is conducted in daylight hours. You do want a stout scope for this application, too.

If I have ever had a screwup hunting buff, it has been loosing the black crosshairs of a non-illuminated scope against this black beast. I became a believer once when looking at buff with the morning sun low behind them. My chance for a shot would have been better with an illuminated dot to help. Any other time the dot is nice also.

I have different colored fiber optic ranging pins on my bow. Many of the feral hogs I hunt on my ranch are black, and I have found the green dot just stands out the best on them.

The battery operated and brightness adjustable red crosshair Swaro just is not better than the green dot Trijicon on my Lott, in my experience.

The eye relief amd also the dimensions of the Trjicon make it tought to mount properly.

I have been looking into the same issue for some time -- a new scope for my .458 Lott Kimber. The last scope went haywire (right before a trip to Masailand, so the rifle stayed home), but I bought the scope used and don't attribute it to the rifle, so I won't even mention the model.

I've looked at most of the scopes mentioned, and at least one more and compiled a comparison of the key statistics from my standpoint. That is, as many have said: (1) eye relief; (2) quality/durability; (3) availability of illuminated reticle (and how powered); (4) one-inch or 30mm tube; and (5) cost. Here's what I come up with (the rankings are my subjective evaluation of the various factors -- your evaluation could be different):

#1 Swaro Z6 EE 1-6 X 24. Best eye relief out there: 4.72". Obviously good glass. Disadvantages -- 30mm, list price for non-illuminated is $1,879.00. Don't have a price for illuminated in my notes. Only disadvantage is the price and the 30mm tube. But this is the best tool for the job IMHO.

#2 Leupold VX-3 1.5-5. I've owned several of these scopes and love them. Eye relief varies based on magnification as noted by someone above. Eye relief, per Leupold website, is 4.5" to 3.7". Four and a half is good; 3.7 is a bit short for me with a big boomer. I think you could probably stretch those numbers a bit, but I'd defer to a gunsmith. Biggest advantages here are durabilty, cost, and customer service: $400 for non-illuminated and $600 for illuminated.

#3 Leupold VX-6 1-6x. This scope comes in both an illuminated and non-illuminated model. Eye relief for both is 3.8". Cost is $899 and $800 respectively. Eye relief seems short to me. If this scope had at least 4" eye relief, given the cost factor, I would rank it ahead of the Swaro for this use (great glass isn't that important under 100 yards).

#4 Nikon African 1-4 X 20. I talked to their rep at DSC this past year and seem to remember that these come in both 1" and 30mm tubes -- quite a difference in price, but I cannot find the 30mm prices. Also seem to remember they come with an illuminated reticle, but can't find those figures either. Eye Relief: 4.1 to 4.0 inches. Cost is ridiculous at $280 for the 1" tube. Don't know anything about durability. If these hold up, they are clearly the lowest cost quality name brand scopes in this market.

#5 Schmidt & Bender Zenith 1.1-4. I have one of these on a little Chapuis double and it's a great scope. Don't know what it costs because I bought it on the rifle and the website doesn't list prices, but the eye-relief is a bit short at a tad over 3.5". Fine on a 9.3X74; too short for a .458 Lott IMHO.

#6 Trijicon 1-4 X 24. I've been wanting an excuse to buy one of these for years. Main issue with me is eye relief is stated at 3.2". Cost is $995.

I'd welcome anyone's thoughts as I've been torn. Like others, my Lott tends to kiss me on the bench and eye relief is paramount. Hope this info is helpful. It was all gathered off of the respective companies' websites. I'm sure you could beat the prices if you shopped around. And I'm looking into whether you could cheat those eye relief numbers.

Great and thorough analysis, Lavaca! Thanks for taking the time to write it up!

To all with the VX3 1.5-5: Did you go with an illuminated duplex reticle or the illuminated German #4 reticle? I'm now stuck on which one would be best for buff and potentially the big cats eventually. Thanks again for all of your excellent feedback!

-John

I am shooting the VX3 1.5x5 Leupy on my .458 Lott and have never had a problem with it. I am not keen on the small objective but in reality, it has never been a problem on this rifle. I believe in keeping scopes simple on big bores and would shy away from the illuminated reticles... but I am old school.

I also have a Leupold VX3 1.5x5 on my custom 458 Lott. I've taken three buffalo with it now and haven't had a hiccup, nor do I expect one. Great cartridge, great scope.

TT

the Nikon Slughunter in 1.65-5.0 power is made to be tough, reliable, to do the square,
AND it has 5.0" eye-relief throughout.

Oh yea, the glass is quite good and distinctly above the entry level Nikon Prostaff, which are great entry level.

I've got one (actually the Nikon Omega/Inline with 5" eyerelief) to take back to TZ for my 416 and have a Slughunter on my 500 AccR.

quote:

Originally posted by bwanamrm:
I believe in keeping scopes simple on big bores and would shy away from the illuminated reticles... but I am old school.

+1 me too

Also no illuminating on heavy recoiling rifles.

quote:

Originally posted by John Galt:
Hello AR Colleagues,

I finally took the plunge and purchased my first truly big bore, a Ruger RSM in .458 Lott. I have been agonizing over this chambering for months now, ever since my wife and I returned from South Africa for a plains game hunt in May.

There is a highly-probable chance this will not be my only big bore (and who the hell am I kidding- definitely will not) but when I decided on .458 Lott I figured that with handloading, I could make this rifle work for anything I ever planned to hunt, period. That way if I end up with the opportunity for a last-minute hunt on anything, then I would have the one go-to rifle to make that happen.

For my newly-purchased rifle, what are your suggestions on a scope?

First of all, I'd like to say that you indeed CAN use a 458 Lott for ANYTHING that walks the earth. With proper bullet placement, it might even work for whale.

Regarding scopes and rings; I wouldn't agonize too much. The scope you see on my gun is a 2-7X Leupold Vari X something or other. Though I use a Nightforce 2.5-10X scope on that rifle now, the Leupold held up just fine. I have an illuminated 2.5-10X Leuopld Mark 4 scope on a 378 Weatherby that has held up fine and that gun probably has a bit more recoil than the 458 Lott.

My 458 Lott is a CZ 550 Safari Magnum for which I use Talley QD rings with no problem. I tried Warne QD rings on the 378 Weatherby and though they held, the first shot or two after reattaching the scope were off so I went to the Warne permanent type rings which have held up fine.

No bad suggestions so far, BUT:

1. U.S. Optics 4x.Hell for stout, terrific glass.
2. If you like intermediate eye relief - and I do - consider both the Leupold 2.5x and the Burris 3x "Scout" scopes. Be sure to use QD mount rings.Duh.

That Lott is VERY powerful. D'Arcy Echols, IIRC, simply will not mount any variable on a .458 Lott.

Good hunting.

Grumulkin,

I thought the javelina with my Lott was the ultimate in overkill -- if the turkey with my .416 wasn't. But I bow to you, the master of overkill.

.416Tanzan:

I've seen reference to that Nikon Slugmaster scope with the 5" eye relief. Thought about it, but I've never actually touched one.

They don't look like a proper big bore scope -- bell on objective lense, but I guess that doesn't really matter.

What is the reticle? and how much have you used it?

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
A couple of thoughts .
The recoil impulse from the Lott is tough on scopes and the heavier they are the more they suffer.
Additionally, any animal you need the Lott for will not need to be magnified more than 2 or 3 X's.

Leupold 2.5x fixed power. I'm surprised Phil didn't suggest this one specifically.

Biebs has a great Zeiss DG scope in the classifieds.

I have had a 3x9 vxII on my Lott for years with not one problem. I have the same scope on my 470 capstick with no problems. I guess it is just a matter of how much money you want to spend. I like having the higher power when you want to use it. Ross

I looked through this Sightron at the NRA show this summer.

Awesome optics and features for a DG scope.

http://www.sightron.com/index....6362&cat_id=6&id=193

Thanks for the Sightron info. That's a new one on me, but it looks interesting. I ordered a catalogue

The May/June 2012 issue of Sports Afield has an excellent article on "Scopes for Dangerous Game." Has a lot of the same information as in my post above, but does indicate that real eye relief numbers may be greater than advertised on some scopes.

I've had this magazine lying around for a while, but just looked at it carefully. I wish I'd seen this sooner.

1-4 NXS in your reticle of choice. I have one on my .500 A2 and really like it. Or a NXS 2.5-10x32 as already suggested.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
...

.416Tanzan:

I've seen reference to that Nikon Slugmaster scope with the 5" eye relief. Thought about it, but I've never actually touched one.

They don't look like a proper big bore scope -- bell on objective lense, but I guess that doesn't really matter.

What is the reticle? and how much have you used it?

I've only used it on my 500 AccR, which sits on a ruger 77 Hawkeye action with a back-extending front ring. I like it alot. I have another one along with a short, one piece mount for a CZ550 in 416 rigby that I am taking back to Tanzania.
On reliability, Michael over on "Terminals" has been shooting houndreds of rounds thru Nikons this year wihtout any of the troubles that were turning up in his Leupolds.

Since we currently use Nikon Monarch 2-8 on our Rigbys, we've gotten used to a bell on a dangerous game rifle.They are excellent, reliable glass for a dangerous game rifle. We haven't touched our foreheads with the scopes on our Rigbys, ever, but with the added recoil of a 7000ftlb cartridge in a light rifle I thought 5" eye-relief would be prudent. And the same is useful on the rigby even if less demanding. Our Rigbys are loaded to 6200ftlbs.

I switched my entire inventory over to Nikon for my big bore rifles. After several years of busting Leupolds on a continuous basis something had to change. On my rifles I do not like the big heavy 30mm tubes, and won't use them, they are just too heavy, and too big. For the folks that do use 30mm, I believe 30mm is tougher on average than 1 inch tubes, a belief not fact. Some time ago I tried several different scopes to see if I could come up with something that at least comes close to the size, eye relief, and MORE IMPORTANT--LARGE FIELD OF VIEW for a "Dangerous Game Rifle". Two came out looking good, even though I did not like them to begin with, the 1X4 Nikon African, and the 1X4 Trijicon cross hairs--Do not like that post triangle thing.

I shoot A LOT. In many cases I will shoot more in a week than most of you shoot in a year, and many in a lifetime. Depending on what I am working on at any given time, load data, terminals, pressure data, getting rifles/loads ready for a hunt, or other projects, I will shoot between 7000 to 10000 big bore rounds in any given year. Things break when doing this much. Most Leupold models cannot take this. In fact, on one of my rifle/cartridges I have busted a new leupold, straight out of the box on the 3rd round fired. Most of those have been 1.5X5 Vari and VX 3s, 1x4 VX2s and 1.75X6 VX and Vari X 3s. At one time I had kept up with it and busted 13 Leupolds in an 18 month period.

Currently I have sold, traded, and given away almost all my beloved Leupolds, a devoted fan I was, and replaced the entire inventory with various Nikons. Nikons are very reasonable priced as well, to me, the actual glass is superior to Leupolds, eye relief great, and field of view at close range excellent. Durable? Well I started with 1 Nikon African, 18 to 24 months ago, has had near or more than a 1000 rounds now of heavy hitter loads on it, and I just used it in Australia on a buffalo shoot, has not broken yet. In all my other Nikons, I don't know how many rounds have been fired, but I have not busted one of them YET. Now I might start busting the hell out of them tomorrow, I don't know, but right now and up to this point, I would not even consider another scope.

The one Trijicon I have is also excellent, it has had nearly the same amount of heavy loads as the one Nikon and it is just great, but they are very expensive, I bought this one when they were going for $600 or so, and now I think they are a bit more?

Take that for what you paid for it. This is just my experiences with these.

Michael

Thanks all- I ended up purchasing a Leupold VX-3 1.5-5x illuminated. Hopefully I'm not going to regret this decision and if so, I can always pull this scope and put it on another rifle. Hell- I can always buy another rifle just "for" this scope!

And to satisfy all of you who may ask "who is John Galt?"- I will keep you in suspense... but here's his new .458 Lott!!!

I just hope Atlas doesn't Shrug John.