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This query doesn't seem to fit comfortably within any of our sub-forums. I'm hopeful that people shooting "bore" size rifles visit this sub-forum more than others.

This query concerns whether a rifled 12 gauge slug shotgun can be loaded with black powder, to function like Victorian-era "bore" sized rifles. How much Swiss [brand] FFg powder - in weight in grains - can be put into the base 1.45 inches of primed unloaded new or once-fired, 12 gauge 2.75-inch high-brass shotshells? I specify Swiss black powder because it is denser than other black powder brands generally available. Being more dense might mean that more volume, and perhaps more weight, can be measured into the cylindrical shape. I'm not asking about any additional capacity that might occur by compressing the powder. I just want to "get in the neighborhood." Other than high brass rather than trap/skeet shotshells, I'm not fixed on any particular brand or other specifics.


It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it. Sam Levinson
 
Posts: 1528 | Location: Seeley Lake | Registered: 21 November 2007Reply With Quote
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The height of the brass on a shotshell is solely for marketing purposes and easy identification of load from the other; e.g., waterfowl from upload and is not necessarily related to powder capacity.

Shotshells can have high or low bases which refers to the interior design and does effect capacity.


Mike

Legistine actu quod scripsi?

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.




What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
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Posts: 10181 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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Picture of buckeyeshooter
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quote:
Originally posted by Naphtali:
This query doesn't seem to fit comfortably within any of our sub-forums. I'm hopeful that people shooting "bore" size rifles visit this sub-forum more than others.

This query concerns whether a rifled 12 gauge slug shotgun can be loaded with black powder, to function like Victorian-era "bore" sized rifles. How much Swiss [brand] FFg powder - in weight in grains - can be put into the base 1.45 inches of primed unloaded new or once-fired, 12 gauge 2.75-inch high-brass shotshells? I specify Swiss black powder because it is denser than other black powder brands generally available. Being more dense might mean that more volume, and perhaps more weight, can be measured into the cylindrical shape. I'm not asking about any additional capacity that might occur by compressing the powder. I just want to "get in the neighborhood." Other than high brass rather than trap/skeet shotshells, I'm not fixed on any particular brand or other specifics.


I have never used slugs, but I use 55 grains of Goex FF with a winchester AA wad and 1 oz Shot for Cowboy action shooting. I would think you could easily change a slug for the wad and shot combo.
 
Posts: 5727 | Location: Ohio | Registered: 02 April 2003Reply With Quote
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Not 12 gauge, but I load 115 grains of Swiss FFFg under a 700 grain (1 5/8 ounce) round ball in cut down Federal plastic hulls with a roll crimp in my Tolley 10-bore 2 5/8" 5-dram rifle. It gives 1300fps even and the barrels usually touch at 50 yards.


DRSS

"If we're not supposed to eat animals, why are they made out of meat?"

"PS. To add a bit of Pappasonian philosophy: this single barrel stuff is just a passing fad. Bolt actions and single shots will fade away as did disco, the hula hoop, and bell-bottomed pants. Doubles will rule the world!"
 
Posts: 816 | Location: MT | Registered: 14 November 2004Reply With Quote
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I have a 12 Bore Lyon and Lyon double rifle that weighs 13 pounds. Case length 2 7/8 inch and proofed for 191 grains (7 drams) of black powder and a 750 grain conical bullet. The brass cases are from Rocky Mountain. Recoil in a 13 pound rifle with the 7 dram load is HEAVY. I would not want to shoot that load in a 7 or 8 pound gun! Almost 4000 foot pounds of energy!
 
Posts: 80 | Location: Toronto, Ohio | Registered: 11 May 2007Reply With Quote
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In my older 12-bores I have shot 5-7 drams of FFg GOEX with a ball and 5-6 drams with a conical. 2 1/2" brass case.
Cal


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Posts: 7281 | Location: Willow, Alaska | Registered: 29 June 2009Reply With Quote
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If i droptube and compress slightly i can fit 135'ish grains under a 690grain slug in a 3"~76mm case with no closing disk and a small roll crimp.

It depends a lot what type og closing you intend to use.
A starcrimp will steal @ 1/4" more case than a rollcrimp.
 
Posts: 1102 | Location: Denmark | Registered: 15 October 2001Reply With Quote
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