A friend of mine asked if I would shoot his double rifle for him, as he did not have the time to get to the range (that should have been my first warning, when he wouldn't shoot it himself). The rifle is a 12-pound hammer gun in .500-3" Nitro Express. This gun was no fun to shoot; between the too high comb , too little cast , hard rubber butt "pad" , and trigger guard banging into my fingers when I shot the right barrel . After shooting 10 shots (he had asked me to test two different brands of ammo to see which shot better) I felt like I had been in a fight . Yes, I could keep everything in about 4" at 50 yards, but I had to focus on not flinching at the recoil in order to do so. It almost made me appreciate the recoil of my .458 Lott, which I was also shooting.

All of this got me thinking (usually a dangerous state of affairs) that more is not better. I believe I am leaning toward Ray's camp, that one of the various .40-caliber rifles are the way to go for me; less abuse, easier to shoot. Yes I know that I can shoot lighter bullets in my .458, but a .40 will out penetrate with the same bullet weight, and I for one don't believe that I will ever shoot elephants with my big bores.

Duane Wiebe, who built my .458 Lott, thinks that he can make the gun 100% reliable as a .416 Remington. I believe that a conversion to a switch barrel, and a second barrel in .416 Remington is in the Lott's future.

Call me a wimp if you want, but I'm saying UNCLE!

Loud-n-boomer,

Forty is enough gun.

jim dodd

Loud-n-Boomer

Think of your 500 NE as a great experience! You got to try a somewhat limiting caliber without ever buying the gun . No gun to sell now. Besides it appeared the stock did not fit properly.

A good selection of 40 cal rifles; 416's, 458 Lott, 450 Ackley, 450 Dakota, 460 Wea, and the very interesting 470 Mbogo, all will put everything I have seen or read about on the turf. Besides you shoot a great caliber already.

Good shooting.

Boomer,
Before you go and spend that money, I'd ask you to try molycoated 450 grain Barnes bullets at 2,250 to 2,300 fps, in your Lott. You'll retain the stopping power of the .458 bore, while duplicating both the recoil and penetration of the .416, for all intents and purposes.

Nick:

Thanks for the tip, I'll give the 450's a try. I already shoot the 400 grain bullets at 2400 fps, as a North American hunting load.

Dave

Boomer,
If you have difficulty locating the 450 grain "X" bullets, let me know. The 450 Super Solids are generally available. If I haven't already done so, let me know if you'd like me to forward my .458 Lott loading data.

BTW - I used the 450 "X" @ 2,450 fps on two cape buffalo and while they were devastating at that velocity, I do recall how much sweeter the rifle was to shoot @ 2,250-300 fps, while working up my loads. I have little doubt that they will be very effective at this speed.

Nick:

.458 Lott load data is always appreciated. Do you have a load for the 350-grain speers?

I currently load the 500-grain Speer AGS softs and solids over enough IMR 4320 to give 2200 fps as an African load. In my rifle, the load shoots 1-inch 3-shot groups consistently. I shot eight of my nine African trophies with this load, and most were one shot kills, including a Heartebeast at a measured 243 yards.

It is not so much that I can not manage the rifle; it is just that after 10 rounds from the .500, the additional shooting of the .458 just was not fun. This got me thinking that for what I do and will hunt, the .416 makes better sense. Especially since I already have a .375 H&H. That said, I am going to use the Lott with the 400-grain Barnes-X load for my annual elk hunt in early November.

Dave

Dave,
I understand your thinking and yes, maybe the .416 is better. I do have 350 grain loads for the Lott, too so check your email tonight.

Loud'n boomer,

I would just rebarrel it to the 416 Rem and be done with it...You will never need more gun than the 416 Rem.

Switch barrels sound great in intelligent stimulating rifle conversations but in reality they simply take up space, never on when they should be and in general they just suck....

Ray:

Normally, I would agree with you on this one, and would just rebarrel, but the barrel and action on this gun are engraved to match each other. I can also get the new barrel engraved for not too much, so that it matches everything else. Additionally, the cost to make it a switch barrel is not much more than to just rebarrel. As this will be a switch barrel, not a takedown, and a .416 and .458 essentially cover the same uses for me, I dought that the barrel will be changed often. In all honesty, once the .416 barrel is on, it will probably stay on for 90% of the shooting I do with the rifle.

It's just that as you say, "Switch barrels sound great in intelligent stimulating rifle conversations." However, if I ever have to sell the rifle (parish the thought) it is the wild ideas from those "intelligent stimulating rifle conversations" that convince people that something is a great idea, and that they have to have one.

Loud - Before you forget it, mark this "friend" with the 500 NE off you xmas card list. I think you were shamelessly set up. Just about everytime I've agreed to sight in a person's rifle for them I was sorry.

I think you're headed in the right direction to step down to the .40 caliber. Just because we CAN shoot a larger gun doesn't mean we oughta.

Loud,
Man, that 500 is a bear, and you where setup. I routinely (snicker) shoot a friends 577, and it makes my 416 will like a 308 and my 376 feel like a 22. If it doesn't fit you, its going to hurt.

You got lucky, in a way, in knowing, without a doubt, that you want the rifle to fit you, or the bigins aint worth having.

btw, we where at carter's country, with a 577, a 470 and a 416... the 470 was a merkel, that looked as trim as a 410 sxs. it wasn't even close to fitting me, and was a great deal more unpleasent to shoot, but VERY controlable, when campared to 577. 416, which fits me perfectly, felt like a 308 in comparrision.

Myself, I would not screw with the lott, but load it down to 2100/2200 fps with 400's for training. If it's still too much, add 4 to 6 oz of lead, keeping the balance, to "redeuce" felt recoil.

I love my 416, but I am thinking strongly of building a 470 or 500...

or, just to throw a wrnech in it... sell the 416, and get a 500/416 and be done with it.

jeffe

Jeffe:

It is not that I can't handle the Lott, it is more of a question of how badly do I want to? Since it is the one gun I try to shoot regularly, so that I can contuinue to shoot it well enough to consider myself competent (I can consistently hit a 6-inch target offhand at 50 yards, 3 out of 3 shots in under 15 seconds), it is not a question of ability, but rather do I want to continue with masochism. All of that said, I will be hunting elk with it in about 10 days, not because it is the only suitable rifle I have, but rather just because the rifle is too nice to leave in the safe and not use.

Honestly, how many of us "enjoy" recoil. Sure we can manage it to varying degrees, but in all honesty, if we could have a rifle that hits like a .50 BMG, with the recoil and report of a .22LR, and that only weights 6-1/2 pounds, wouldn't we all get one?

Too often the caliber gets blamed for excessive recoil, when in fact it is due to a poorly designed stock.

I have a 458 Lott that doesn't kick at all. And I have a 458 win mag that gives me a painful jab. The Lott enjoys 250 fps more velocity with a 500 grain pill, but still kicks about 1/3 as much as the Win. Mag. The difference is the stock design.

Loud N Boomer:
I agree. You should get rid of that terrible Lott. Weibe's are cheap guns so how about I take it off your hands for about 250 bucks, and I can get a REAL gunsmith to polish up that terrible work he does...

Seriously, if the recoil bothers you, put mercury reducers in it, a Pac or kickez, giant pad, and a muzzle brake.

Know a guy that did that with a 416 Wby, and said it didn't kick anymore then a 300 mag.

When you think about it, you could push that speer bt at near 3000 fps, and that would nail pretty much anything on the planet, and all you would have is a much bigger hole, and a bullet the same weight as a 375, or use a 400 grain bullet if you want equal, but better, then 416.

I think your recoil problem is you are just using too much velocity. I know to get a 270 grain factory federal round to go 2800, out of a 25 inch barrel, I've got to be WAY up there on pressure. Since your Lott has near the same size case as a 375, I suspect the higher pressure rounds also get into the "it isnt worth the recoil and extra pressure, for the velocity increase category."

Why not shoot it in the pressure ranges the 375 or 416 are designed to work in, like about 40k, not 60k?

Just a thought...
s

[ 11-02-2002, 11:09: Message edited by: Socrates ]

Loudenboomer,
Well put your faith in your gunsmith, you are using one of the very best...