The 45-70 thread (and several others) had me thinking about recoil...not so much what you can/can't handle but what can YOU compare it to? Unlike a lot of you, I've not been able to try the great British rounds, etc. How about picking 2 or 3 examples and giving a comparision that all of us can relate to...such as 416 Rigby in a 10 lb. Ruger is double the felt recoil of an 8 lb. 30-06 Ruger in my opinion (I made this one up). Also, tell us if this was standing, sitting, wearing t-shirt or coat, etc.

I'm curious, specifically, about the British loads (nitro or black).

I know this is a difficult subject (as felt recoil varies tremendously) if we start to compare each other's responses...so let's stay away from that. Looking forward to all of your responses.

Unfortunately, I haven' been able too shoot that many of the rounds, what I can compare is a 7# 308, ~10# 35 whelen ackley, and a 9+# ported 458 lott.

The .308 was my first centerfire, and w/ teeshirt off the bench, I'd get bruised pretty good after 2 boxes of ammo. I got a past pad, and bruises were a thing of the past.

The whelen was my next gun, and typical load is 250 gr @ 2600-2700. I'd say it had ~twice the recoil of the .308, but was totally manageable. I've put a box through it off the bench at lunch, and it was allright, I'd probably do two boxes with no problems.

When I first worked up loads with the lott, I started right off w/ 500 gr hornadies. Initial loads were 2100 fps, but worked up to 2280 at the end of the second session of load work. Since I shoot at lunch, sessions are short, and I found, I could handle 10 rounds offhand, but was too fatigued to shoot any more. I tried it off the bench twice, 3 shot strings. Even with the past pad, it knocked me pretty good. I only fired two 3 shot strings, on two different days. The porting nearly iliminated muzzle jump, so it came back hard! Actually the first string off the bench was with the forearm firmly held with the offhand. The second attemp was shooting benchrest style, just holding the grip, but even with a sandbag between the butt and my shoulder, it knocked the snot out of me. With bench sessions, you absolutely must hold the forearm down!!!

I also loaded up 350's @ 2400 fps from the lott, and it was a whole different animal, utterly enjoyable to shoot. I fired 30 rounds during one lunch session, 12 off the bench to sight it in, and 18 from field positions, offhand, sitting, kneeling and prone. It was definately a bit more then the whelen, but just as manageable.

So, personally, I feel somewhere between the 375 H&H and the 416 is a threshold. Below the threshold, you shoot it without regard to recoil. Above the threshold, you are always aware of the recoil, you can deal with it, you can keep from getting hurt, but you have to make extra mental effort before squezing off a round. I don't ever recall flinching with the lott, but the fatique I mentioned was mental, extra concentration to shoot it.

Oh, after I sold the lott to my buddy, I did shoot one 350 load, and one 500 load offhand w/o the past. It wasn't that bad, but for more shots, I'd want the shoulder pad. And I wasn't wearing a t-shirt, had a heavy jacket on.

Thats my experience, and we'll see if it changes when I get my new 458, and the 500. I'm not against downloading, and I greatly look forward to 450 gr cast at 1300-2000 fps out of the 500, from a 11-12# gun, they will be quite enjoyable!

I would compare the light weight 45-70 with the hot loads and heavy bullets to the 450-400-3" in a 10 lb. rifle..or to the 404 Jefferys in its original loadings in a 10 lb. rifle...

The underloaded 458 Factory ammo in a heavy rifle is only slightly more in recoil..

Keep in mind that the 45-70 with a hot load and heavy bullet in a light rifle has a lot more snap to it and the Briish listings above are more of a shove...

Be assured the 404 with a hot handload surprises the 45-70 big time but you are tossing a 400 gr. bullet at 2653 FPS as opposed to the original loading of 2150 FPS and thats bordering on brutal...In the big bores a 100 extra grains of bullet produces a lot of recoil and when a 100 FPS is added to that you just compounded the problem....

If the 45-70 was necked down to 40 caliber and picked up to 1900 FPS, with a 400 gr. bullet, it would then be a very marginal Buffalo gun, perhaps, as the SD and penitration would increase dramatically IMHO...and it would have a reduction in recoil too I suspect.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

The 45-70 comparison helps me as I know what 500 gr. fmj's at 1550 fps in a Marlin feel like with a t-shirt on...snappy!

Another hard hitter was my Freedom Arms 475 Linebaugh shooting 350 gr. jhp's at 1600 fps...I had to pound every case out (overload) and that load made me bleed. By the way, those weren't my loads...they were Buffalo Bores.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by yukon delta:
Yukon Delta,
I find that the guns I shoot in the 65 to 90 ft lbs. of recoil range feel about the same with a decent recoil pad and stock design. There is a good amount of recoil but it's still controlable but once you get into the 100 ft.lbs. range there is definately a step up in the felt recoil. Check out Comparing the Big Bores for the recoil test that I did. The site is www.470mbogo.com. 470 Mbogo