I went to the eye Dr. several days ago for an exam. He is one of my hunting buddies and I value his opinion. He advised me that I had a partially detached retina in my right eye. He asked me if I had taken any heavy blows in the last year or so and I advised I had not.He then went on to advise that I needed to quit shooting my big bore rifles. He said that the heavy recoil had caused the retina to detach. I don't know what to think about the whole thing.
Any Dr.'s out there or has any one heard of such a thing?

Sorry to here about the Eye Taos.
You can always take up Big Bore Bowhunting HeHehe
Seriously That stinks!
Get the eye fixed and Good Luck
Greg

I too am very sorry to hear about your detached retina.

My father had a partially detached retina about twenty years ago - he was pulling the starting cord on a lawnmower when it detached. He had laser surgery, and so far, everything is still OK. At the time he shot a 30-06, Dr. said use something smaller. He's been using a (my) 243 ever since, but still shoots a 12 gauge shotgun. "Officially", he's still not supposed to lift anything that weighs more than 50 pounds.

I would find the best eyedoc that I could, get it re-attached, and avoid heavy recoil for a while. Better to shoot little guns than none at all. Just my opinion.

Take care and best regards,

Bill

I suffered a detached retina (2) years ago. You can't walk around for long with a partial detachment, a tear yes, but not a detachment. Within days or hours it is going to become fully detached & is NOT repairable. I am only 45 & asked the doc if my shooting could have caused it. At the time I had started shooting a .458Lott. He told me DR is common in folks of advancing age (55 & up). It can be caused by pulling a mower, lifting even sneezing. It can also be a genetic disposition or repeated blows that cause small tears, just waiting for a bigger blow to cause it to detach..
Best advice, as given to me, have a retinal exam every year. Detachments often start w/ small pin holes than can be repaired w/ a laser. A detachment will require actual surgical procedures to repair. If you have any symptons, flashing lights in your periferal vision, floating clouds in your vision or ANY blind spots in your vision, get to the eye surgeon. It could cost you your sight. Good luck w/ the eye, I can certainly empathize.

I sold a 505 Gibbs to a Doctor in Fl. the gun weighed 7.5 lbs. and I couldn't handle the recoil and made this clear to the doctor...He had shot a lot of big bores and believed he could shoot it...

The gun detached his retina, and come to find out he had a retina operation a few years before...I offered to refund him his money or trade him a 404 but he chose to keep the rifle as a momento to what real recoil was all about and said he was forewarned so I had no responsibility...Nice man and a real gentleman.

So it can and does happen...If I had such a problem then I would get a 30-06, load it with 220 gr. premium softs and GS solids. and hunt everything with that or perhaps a 9.3x62 would work...I wouldn't be too uncomfortable shooting the big stuff with the 06 or 9.3......beats a stick in the eye so to speak.

Ray,
Isn't it illegal to hunt DG with the exception of Leopard with under a .375?(Notice I didn't say anything about the caliber not being up to it)
9.3 I think qualifies.

Thanks
Greg

Sorry to hear that.

I'm supprised to hear that nobody has mentioned a muzzle brake. Yes I know they make things loud and annoying to hunt with but for fun plinking and bench work they are great.

I shoot the 50 BMG quite a bit (hence the handle) and have used it for hunting. I lugged the 28lb gun up to a tree stand 15ft up and waited for a deer. When I saw one I slid the ear-muffs I already had on my head down over my ears and was ready to shoot. Long story short, I didn't end up shooting the doe.

With a BMG and NO muzzlebrake it will detatch your retena along with everything from the neck up. With a MB it is a pussycat.

Just keeping your options open. Good luck.

Taos,
I am a family practitioner. My residency did include some brief ophthalmology training as relates to this.

The fact is that no scientific studies have been done to look at the stastical significance of the retrospective correlation of big bore shooting with retinal detachment, nor have any prospective studies been done to monitor shooters for this, nor any experiments to induce retinal detachment by recoil of a rifle.

You cannot pin down the ophtalmologist for any hard data. He is advising you based on his best "clinical judgement."

Age and high myopia (nearsightedness) predispose to retinal detachment, as would other conditions such as Marfan syndrome, and previous retinal disese such as occular histoplasmosis, etc.

It is just tough to say with any certainty what level of recoil is dangerous.

A Retinal detachment starts as a small tear, as stated above. The extension of this can proceed within minutes or in twenty years to a partial or complete retinal detachment. Again, impossible to specify a time frame.

Get it repaired, tacked down with a laser. Resume shooting at the level you feel safe at, in consultation with your ophthalmologist, who knows your retina personally.

Nobody here can give any better advice than what you will get from that.

Hard, fast recoil with rapid accelaration of the head is a risk factor. We all have to deal with this. I am a few months overdue for my eye exam. I will not put it off any longer.

Maybe that is why I don't own a T. rex or Nyati.

RAB,

Leaving out the extremes of someone who will have trouble with a 222 and someone else who would have no problems with a 7 pound 585, where do you think the level of recoil is that is likley to be a potential problem.

I have gathered from some of your postings that the 585 is possibly a health risk.

My own feeling is the greatest combination of shots fired, by the largest number of people and with a degree of recoil, is the shotgun shooter and that this level of recoil is probably OK. I think if this level of recoil was a problem, then the great number of shooters across the world would mean many instances of detached retina would be observed.

I don't know enough about shotguns and the recoil level of loads used where lots of shots are fired. Would it be around the 375 area for duck loads and maybe 30/06 for the clay target shooting?

Mike

RAB and Mike,

Keep it down. I was just about to ask about his big bores.

Thanks for all the advice. Daggaron I really appreciate your proffesional input. I think I will get my self to another Dr. and see what he says before I let them start carving on me, laser or no!

In the interim I will just have to make the small bores work for everything. Thanks again.

Mike375,
I will plead ignorance. I dunno. I do believe your thinking on that acceptable risk recoil level is a good way to look at it.

Lee, I was very sorry to read about your eye problem and know that it must worry you to no end. I think the advice about working with your doctor and your decision to get a second opinion are wise and think you should be very cautious until you have the necessary information. Knowledge can alleviate much concern and undue worry.
As a professional photographer I worry terribly about my eyes while shooting the big stuff and have already had to train my weak eye for my job since my dominate eye has begun to blur more quickly when I photograph for more than a couple hours at a time.
It would seem that you will have to begin training to kill those Southern California Hogs with a 17 mag or a 22 imp or that really "Big-Bore" of the 22's -a Swift. And who knows you may get it "fixed" and never have to think about it again. Good Luck,
Frank

[ 06-20-2002, 18:21: Message edited by: Frank Martinez ]

Does getting punched or kicked hard in the head going to damage the retina like big bores do?

Cool Guy,

A blow to the head can definitely cause problems. Many years ago when I was into the karate thing, I was sparring with a buddy of mine and landed a kick with the top of my foot over his right eye. It wasn't a hard kick at all, but it partially detached his retina right then and there......

As DaggaRon said, it's hard to know if he was already predisposed to this...but my friend retinal problem was undeniably accelerated by me.

Cool Guy, it happened to Sugar Ray Leonard.

I think if retina detachments aren't age related a lot of the stand-up fighters would have detached theirs. Most of those guys quit before they're 40 so......

Hopefully the doctors and scientists learn how to combat this by the time I'm 50 because I'm planning to try out Saeed's 577 tyrannosaur!

Just give me some phone books to stand on to see over that shooting bench!

Mike375,

Your logic seems unassailable. Age must be the big one. Strangely enough, my ophthalmologist thinks that, too, along with myopia predisposing.

Taos, Sorry to hear about your eye. I'm a physician also, but not an opthamologist. I had a severe right eye injury several years ago-ended up losing the eye and now I shoot left handed. I get along OK but I don't recommend fooling around where your vision is concerned. The important fact is that YOUR retina has shown the tendency to detatch. It may well do so again in the future with or without any trauma. I certainly would be careful with high recoiling rifles. If you are hell-bent on African dangerous game hunting, I'd get a 375 made on a very heavy rifle and put a brake on it. For practice you can use reduced loads. Good luck.

We all know (I hope) that a firearm with more mass usually results in less recoil. Does this mean that having a big head would lessen the likelihood of having a retinal detachment from repeated impacts?

Boxers do build up some pretty strong necks to absorb some of the impact.

Sorry, but this subject got me to thinking, and that is always dangerous.....

My God!! I hate to even think about a muzzle brake but it seems that may be the way to go. Thank you all for your input.

Greg,
Your correct but in Africa things can be done and are, if it is logical...many buffalo are shot by lads and ladies with a 30-06 or 7x57 as long as a back up is handy..A game scout can OK this as a rule, depending on the country...Bottom line is it's done and without question.

Taos,
As one ages the uglyness of a muzzle brake dwindles, a phenomemnom know only to curmudgeons. when one awakes with pains that crop up out of nowhere and joints that refuse to partake in the days activities, stiff necks, bursitis in the shoulders, all from over zealous firing of those stimulating big bores that have reduced you to a sniveling idiot over a period of years. At this point all else becomes somewhat pointless and add to that the fact that the extra 2 decimals of noise produced by the muzzle brake means not a twit, because you are allready deaf from shooting all your life without a bloody muzzle brake...It was the gun going boom that deafened you, not the muzzle brake...but alas, by the time we gather this last tidbit of knowledge it's too late my friend.

I am breaking my .585 & I think Breaks look cool (I'm 26) looks like I am picking up on this imformation a little early am I Ray....

Hey Lee, you may want to look at a Mercury dampener which is inserted into the stock rather than the brake which is very loud and also creates a concussion blast like a sound wave which I felt each time I shot mine- LONG GONE THAT ONE.

There is also the hydrolic recoil pad. I have no experience there but perhaps others do.
Lately I have been noticing that my 458 at right around 2000 fps and my 416 at around 2100 fps seem to push in recoil rather than the sharp punch of rifles like the 338wm. Perhaps you will find the same by giving up the extra velocity and going with the softer loads.
I hope you are finding good news with the information you are gathering.
Frank

Ray,

About 10 years ago or so almost all of my elk hunters showed up in camp with the new boss system. I had to make them let me get in a position directly behind them before I would let them shoot!! Damn those things hurt my ears!! I will be trying one in the near future and guess I will have to adapt to them. Just got draw results today on Id. I didn't draw anything worth a crap so I may just see if this thing will stay in place shooting a .260 on everything this season.
Frank,
The recoil reduction things are maybe a good way to go. I have never seen one used but will try and find one to look over and try.

Taos,
My father is an optometrist who works in an ophthalmic unit at one of India's biggest hospitals. I spoke to him about your post and he says that you may have to undergo scleral buckling on the detached retina and cryotherapy on the other eye to safeguard it in the future. Myopia can be a cause for detachment and so can shocks to the head - you may have to use muzzle breaks or some other means to reduce the chances of a second detachment. In the case of severe detachments, patients are advised to avoid even bending down for about two or three months until the buckle settles down. Do take the utmost care and make sure you have the treatment started as fast as possible.
Get well soon and good luck.

Taos,

See another specialist and get that thing tack-welded ASAP! Then shoot a 270 or 260 for a couple of years to see how it goes.

Take it easy!

Don

Sorry about your eye
I have eyes that are shaped for retina detachment. So are my eye doctors and he has had to have repair work on one eye. He tells me not to worry over recoil because it is not directed at the head in a way to cause a severe blow to the head. He tells me to keep shooting and contact him at anytime I have a problem.