Curious why Speer discontinued the tungsten core solid offering? Lack of demand?
It is unlikely someone would be looking for gilt edge accuracy for the application the bullet was designed for.
Probably the best 500 gr. solid ever for a 458 Win Mag.
High density and a short length.
I sure wish I could find some of those.
Only "failure" I ever heard was the tungsten core left the jacket and completely penetrated the designated target. Not really a failure.
I like the monomental solids. Some really good ones out there but I think that Speer tungsten core offering was the best ever.

EZ

We tested a steel plate, one inch thick, with several bullets and calibers.

The only bullet that penetrated through was the tungsten core of this bullet, in 375.

The rest of the bullet did not, but the core. did.

Many times discussed here.

What I heard is that Federal (or owner of Federal) bought Speer. Federal had already own solid, so they ceased production of Speer tungsten core solid.

The inventor of the bullet, Darrel Inman, when retired, he bought machinery from company and continued production. Bullets were called "Safari Select". My friends met with him in 2012 and bought for me one box of .375 bullets (5 USD per bullet). He told him the story about Federal ceased production after they bought Speer.

Darrel passed away in December 2017
https://lmtribune.com/obituari...67-f20d2d981de0.html


Jiri

Talking of penetration.

I shot an elephant bull with a 416 Rigby Improved, using the Barnes Brass Super Solid.

We recovered the bullet from his head.

The next year, I used the same bullet, which I turned down to 375 caliber, to shoot another elephant.

Sadly, the bullet went completely through and we did not recover it.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
We tested a steel plate, one inch thick, with several bullets and calibers.

The only bullet that penetrated through was the tungsten core of this bullet, in 375.

The rest of the bullet did not, but the core. did.

Which 375? 9.53 Saturn?

375/404

Saeed,

I would like to ask you:

I know you have or had Lazzeroni 9.53 Saturn and shot hyena with that.

Why did you leave it and chose .375/.404? Saturn was too fast or overbore?

Jiri

Saeed,
In my experience, such penetration is usual for brass bullets.
In preparation for a bullet testing hunt in southern Africa, all bullets were fired at at 5/8 inch plate of steel at a range of 50 yards. The only bullets to shoot through were the Punch bullets. They were .458 diameter and 430 to 450 grains at around 2000 fps.
In the field, on frontal brain shots, the Punch and North Fork shot through the head and several inches into the body of elephant. Naturally, they also shot through cape buff.

In our tests, a vel0city of around 2750-2850 FPS gave the best penetration with Barnes X bullets, 300 grains, .375 caliber.

I hunted with the Lazzeroni with the same bullets, at a muzzle vel0cityof 3140 FPS.

Penetration was awful.

That is why I keep the vel0city of our current ammo at around 2750 FPS.

eezridr: I don't know if "Safari Select" is currently in operation, but I have a price list from them (date unknown.)
The price list is as follows:
SPEER AFRICAN GRAND SLAM BULLETS
375 300gr solids $100.00 box of 25
416 400gr softs $25.00 box of 25
416 400gr solids $112.50 box of 25
458 500gr softs $25.00 box of 25
458 500gr solids $125.00 box of 25
shipping/handling: $15.00
Free shipping with orders over 4 boxes

CONTACT;
Terry Thompson
(208)746-6388

Darrel Inman
(208)743-8858

I've shot the 400gr solids in my .416 Taylor and the 500gr solids in my .458WM with no complaints. Six eles with the Taylor, and nine eles with the WM. Worked for me.

Obviously, Mr. Inman is no longer with us,but perhaps Mr. Thompson is carrying on the business.

Thanks for the direction.

quote:

Originally posted by tsibindi:
eezridr: I don't know if "Safari Select" is currently in operation, but I have a price list from them (date unknown.)
The price list is as follows:
SPEER AFRICAN GRAND SLAM BULLETS
375 300gr solids $100.00 box of 25
416 400gr softs $25.00 box of 25
416 400gr solids $112.50 box of 25
458 500gr softs $25.00 box of 25
458 500gr solids $125.00 box of 25
shipping/handling: $15.00
Free shipping with orders over 4 boxes

CONTACT;
Terry Thompson
(208)746-6388

Darrel Inman
(208)743-8858

I've shot the 400gr solids in my .416 Taylor and the 500gr solids in my .458WM with no complaints. Six eles with the Taylor, and nine eles with the WM. Worked for me.

Obviously, Mr. Inman is no longer with us,but perhaps Mr. Thompson is carrying on the business.

I think I still have a box or two of the tungsten cored solids in 375 and a few boxes of the old Hornady steel jacketed bullets in 308 and 375.

eezridr: You have a PM

Tungsten cored bullets were and would be today quite expensive to manufacture, and prices were high, so it did not surprise me when they were dropped from production. I would wager that sales volumes were very low.

Given the fine, reliable and less expensive monometal solids now available, such as the Barnes Banded Solids, tungsten cored bullets offer no real advantage in hunting thick skinned DG.

The late don heath told me the tungsten core solids were superb at 458 and 416 weight and velocities but that the jacket and tungsten core separated at 375 weight/velocity

I think the perfect application is with a 500 gr solid in a 458 Win Mag.
Monos are simply too long in that weight to allow an appropriate charge of powder to get you above 2000FPS.
It is now common knowledge that 2150-2200 FPS is very achievable with a 500 gr slug in a 458 win mag using AA 2230 powder but it has to be a compact projectile.
This bullet makes it all the more attractive for that application.
I would agree that the solid monos from North fork and Cutting Edge are great but long dimensionally. Great for a 458 Lott.

I believe the 450 gr swift A frame (2270 FPS) and this old tungsten core bullet are the best combination for this cartridge.

EZ

I think the use of a tungson core was more to shorten bullet length than to penetrate, Barnes said if he would make any changes to his bullets it would be a partition in the bullet and a tungsten core in the rear to make his heavy bullets shorter, Or something on that order...I think he was on to something there..

My guess would have been because they are most definitely considered armor piercing.

If fact, that is exactly the same composition as the old WWII 30-06 Armor piercing rounds. a tungsten core surrounded by a thick copper jacket.

BTW what is the composition of modern AP rounds (for small arms)? Not much difference I suppose.

quote:

Originally posted by Pa.Frank:
My guess would have been because they are most definitely considered armor piercing.

If fact, that is exactly the same composition as the old WWII 30-06 Armor piercing rounds. a tungsten core surrounded by a thick copper jacket.

Pretty sure the 163 gr. M2 Black Tip AP load uses a hardened steel core. We were issued this ammo for DCM shoots decades ago and in the impact area you could find the cores from years gone by and they were rusting. I'm sure I still have some somewhere and could see if they bullets were attracted to a magnet.

Some 600g .510 caliber tungsten core solids would be awesome.

quote:

Originally posted by eezridr:
I think the perfect application is with a 500 gr solid in a 458 Win Mag.
Monos are simply too long in that weight to allow an appropriate charge of powder to get you above 2000FPS.

Yet the conservative Barnes #4 manual shows the 500-gr BND Solid of brass, at 2183 fps with H335 and 2194 fps with TAC,
from .458 WIN with 24" barrel and COL of 3.310".

It is now common knowledge that 2150-2200 FPS is very achievable with a 500 gr slug in a 458 win mag using AA 2230 powder but it has to be a compact projectile.
This bullet makes it all the more attractive for that application.
I would agree that the solid monos from North fork and Cutting Edge are great but long dimensionally. Great for a 458 Lott.

Even greater in .458 WIN LongCOL, which makes the .458 Lott eat dust.

I believe the 450 gr swift A frame (2270 FPS) and this old tungsten core bullet are the best combination for this cartridge.

EZ

Magic: The 450-grain TSX at 2450 fps in a .458 WIN with COL of 3.680" combined with the 450-grain CEB Safari Solid.
That would be my pick.
500-grain monometal TSX bullets at +2300 fps in the .458 WIN LongCOL are OK too.

The .30-06 Blacktip ammo I have used has been steel-cored. Ditto the old milsurp Blacktip 50 BMG pulled bullets I used to buy for 35 cents each.
Waiting to hear about any tungsten-cored WWII ammo.

The tungsten-cored Speer ammo in .416-cal that I tried on steel,
like for so many others here, made a tiny hole through the steel and let all the brass/bronze capsules bounce off the gongs.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:


EZ

Waiting to hear about any tungsten-cored WWII ammo.

The tungsten-cored Speer ammo in .416-cal that I tried on steel,
like for so many others here, made a tiny hole through the steel and let all the brass/bronze capsules bounce off the gongs.

Rip ...[/QUOTE]

I stand corrected.. After additional research, the WWII .30 AP rounds were Hardened steel, not tungsten. They supposedly made them from steel because it was cheaper than lead. I have a can of it in Garand clips (black tip)..under the bench... somewhere..

Red primer, black bullet german 7.92 Mauser had tungsten carbide core.

Patr. S.m.K. (H) - Super-armor-piercing with tungsten carbide core

https://history.amedd.army.mil...dblstcs/chapter1.htm

Page 54

RIP and Pa.Frank?

quote:

Originally posted by Jiri:
RIP and Pa.Frank?

That is good to know, Jiri, thanks.
Last night I clicked on your link and alarms went off saying that I would be prone to internet attack if I went there, so I backed out.
I decided to google your info later.
Will take your word for it.

Rip ...

The Panzerbüchse -7.92x94MM anti-tank round also had a Tungsten core.

The round had a metal jacket. The official designation of the round was Patrone 318 SmK-Rs-L'spur or Patrone 318 SmKH-Rs-L'spur. SmK means "Spitzgeschoss mit Kern", which translates to "pointed bullet with core".

(H) indicates the bullet has a tungsten-carbide core, (Rs) stands for "Reizstoff", which means tear gas, because the projectile contains a small capsule of tear gas. "L'spur" stands for "Leuchtspur", which translates to tracer, indicating the bullet has a small tracer in its rear.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by Jiri:
RIP and Pa.Frank?

That is good to know, Jiri, thanks.
Last night I clicked on your link and alarms went off saying that I would be prone to internet attack if I went there, so I backed out.
I decided to google your info later.
Will take your word for it.

Rip ...

It is army.mil site, so it is on your official army web server.

Only ssl certificate is out of date, there is no attack.

Jiri

A US Army website SSL certificate out of date?
Not surprising with all the political correctness going on in the US Army.
Special accommodations for the snowflake recruiting takes resources away from
the mission.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
A US Army website SSL certificate out of date?
Not surprising with all the political correctness going on in the US Army.
Special accommodations for the snowflake recruiting takes resources away from
the mission.

Rip ...

Sorry, not outdated, but not trusted

BTW web is safe:

OH LORDIE! AMEDD!
I used to write MEB summaries for the US Army,
my part in the Medical Evaluation Board morass, for ailments of Veterans service-connected to the VA.
I worked for the benefit of good men, wounded warriors, but there were far too many goldbrickers and con men riding on their coattails!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes, I was once a US Army contractor, a traveling gun for hire, a Paladin.
Ironic since I am a West Point dropout, and General David "Betray Us" Petraeus and General Stanley "Joe Bite Me" McChrystal used to haze me when I was a Plebe and they were Yearlings.
Irony is indeed the highest form of humor.
Just a glance at that screenshot could trigger my PTSD, or PTS, or PMS, or a good BM.
Just kidding.
Some psyches are so strong that they cannot be damaged, nor brainwashed into house-broken for West Point.
I am enjoying retirement immensely.
I never want to go to that website again.
Thank you, but no thanks.

Rip ...

Check the Classifieds, There's a lifetime supply of the Speer AGS Tungsten Core Solids on there right now.

A while back I bought a box of 25 for $100.

(right, in the photo) I shot two pieces of 6" x 12" x 20" long Douglas Fir set end to end (about 40 inches long) with my 460 Weatherby. First shot went through and was lost. For another shot I set a piece of 1/4" steel plate at the end, angled downward and backed up with a heavy rock the size of a football. Good thing because it knocked the plate out of the way but I found the bullet anyway.

(left, in photo) I also shot a piece of 1" thick x 4" wide steel bar and the remaining piece of core is still stuck in.









The bullet that went through the wood opened up and about 1/3 of the core is missing. All I can think is the bullet was super-heated going through and when it hit the steel, the result is what you see. Later, I bought another 50 for much less than $4 each and still have about 62 left.

Edit: Back in the day I called Speer and they told me they bought the tungsten cores from Westinghouse for $1 each and the jackets were hand turned on a lathe.