I've come down with a bad case of elephant fever and a buffalo virus, and I don't own a big bore rifle
I've doing research on the subject, reading books, do searchs on the net and asking questions,I'm now looking at the 404 jeffey. In your opinion is it worth building one? Or would I be time and money ahead just buying a .416? What rifle would make a good "donor action" for a jeffery? Winchester model 77, Ruger 77 with the tang safety?

Mark,
I think the 404 Jeffery would be a splended project.
I am having one built now by John Ricks on a Montana Rifle Co. long action.

Nothing wrong with a .416 in my opine. If you are romancing the cartridge (and that's what I'm doing) 404 Jeffery would be a wonderful choice. Big .423 bullet and you don't have to load it up to kill on both ends to get performance with the rifle.

Ray Atkinson has had several 404 Jefferys and speaks highly of them. I chose the 404 Jeffery to be the companion of my 450/400 3 inch.

Keep us posted!

Mark,
you've got mail

In MY opinion, which most folks may share, and some WONT, the 416 rem is a fine caliber, fully as capable, in factory trim, as the 416 rigby. this does NOT imply the rigby can't be loaded much much more, or does the same with lower pressure.

I feel that one can do anything one needs with the rem, and since it's factory and a huge selling (for winchester, anyway) big bore, I understand the ammo to be available just about anywhere.

The 404 will cost $$$ to build... well, that's not really fair... just take whatever price you would pay for a 416 rem, and add the price of a barrel, bluing and sights.

as for care and feeding,

the 404 brass is about $1.60 each

416 rem, about 37�

Dies

404 JESUS... 225 on midway... or 135 from CH4D

416 rem, 25 from lee (bleck) 50-55 from hornady or rcbs

Shellholder <cheapest part> well, you'r local reloading store probably has the stand mag, heck, you probably do, right now.

Bullets? Not for HUNTING, as those will be premuim bullets, but for learning to shoot and shooting ALOT!!

416 hornady SPs, 47� and i've got them on "blem" for 23�

404 CHEAPEST 84�

powder is a wash more or less, about 25� each

So, you cost for loading 100 rounds, including cases would be, assuming primers cost 2�

416 $111 or $1.11 per round... this is slanted, in that I get at least 10 loads per brass

404 $271, or $2.71 a round...

after the first 100 purchased, each would load for

416 $74 per hundred... or 74�

404 $111 per hundred.. or $1.11

and that's after the $80 (assuming ch4d) dies and the roughly 450 for barreling

jeffe

.

<justing to tweak my buddy Rusty's tail>

You know, if you have to have lower recoil, the 416 can be loaded DOWN!!!

Reminds me of a time I as hosting a project conclusion party.. read, drunken blowout at a poolhall..

those that know me, know I am a great big ole boy...

this fella on my team, who's at least 2" taller and 50 lbs heavier, and STILL looking like a running back, walks up with a "grasshopper"... you know, neon blue with a straw and umberella....

You could have heard a pin drop when I said "you know, they serve men's drinks here TOO!!"

jeffe

The 404 is a great old shell!
The 416s can be had for less money, both in the rifle and the ammo, but I love the 404. I have some experience with making them and using them.
I make them the way Jeffery did in the "teens" and 20s mostly. I like to use the Mauser actions, and drop magazines. In the '40 range" I love the 450/400 for doubles and single shot rifles, The 404 is about my favorite in the bolt action classics with the drop mags, and if Your on a budget at all, you should look real hard at the 416 Taylor. If Your having the rifle built by any gunsmith whos honest, You'll get more rifle for the money with the Taylor. I make the Taylors on Standard Length Mausers, and the price of the parts is MUCH less than on the bigger or "opened up" actions. This means that for the same money, you get more labor and/or better wood from your smith.

All that being said, don't let me talk you out of the 404. It's one of the best magazine rifles available to the big game hunter today. The brass can be made cheeply from 375 Rem Ultra mags, and they work just fine. Also, it would be worth your "phone money" to call Hornady and ask them to make the brass and bullets. I have talked to them a few times in the last 3 month, and they are considering making both. It just depends on demand. So DEMAND!!
(The 404 is a great shell to wildcat. The people at Hornady may make the 404 in a "basic case" and that would be just fine.)
It would be good for us all to call and ask then to do it.
I am currently making 2 404s right now. I just finished one, and it's in the hands of a very happy cutomer now. If You are going to do the work yourself, and You don't have the experience, let Me know and I'll talk You through it.
szihn@wyoming.com
Best of luck and good hunting

Mark,
You have a PM.

Mark

The 404 without a doubt. I have one of the original ones Alf was talking about and it is a wonder. It feels and handles better than any other bolt I have ever picked up. It is evrything that the Rigby and the Remington wanted to be but couldn't.

The 416 Rem may be cheaper but why do you want the cheapest rifle you can get. Why not get the best one?

Mark,

Nostalgia aside, I think you will be better served by a .416 Remington.
There are new guns chambered for it; spend some additional money and have them made utterly reliable.
If you're a handloader, there is probably a greater variety of bullets in .416" than .423", and dies will be cheaper.
If you don't handload, relatively inexpensive factory ammunition is available.

George

I can't beleive that Jeff said "Load it down"??
Mr. Big Bore, Let it Roar, Jeffe???

Drinks with umberellas are great guy drinks, as long as you are listening to Jimmy Buffett!

Jeez. . .load it down. . . .Get thee to a Nunnery!

Will try to drive up and look at the new machine later this week!

I'm building my .404 on the 1999MRC action. The boltface needs to be opened a little but the cartridge feeds thru the rails nicely.

Cases, bullets, dies and barrels for the .404 all all more difficult to find and usually more expensive. But I wanted a traditional African big bore and went with the .404 over the .416 Rem mag. The 416 Rigby is available too and the CZ and Ruger actions will handle it. It's just too much for me right now.

In terms of power the .404 is on par with all the .416 except the weatherby and it should be capable of handling anything you want to point it at.

While you got ele fever, I got buffalo fever.

I emailed my PH in J'berg and he told me that the .404 is among the best cartridges for DG in his opinion.

My .404 should be finished soon. It is going up on a M70 action. Why, just because I like different & it is a great old cart. So good infact that it's now all "new" again in the form of the various RUMs, SAUMs, Dakotas, etc., etc.

Mark,

I recommend you take a look at the .404 Dakota cartridge while you are doing your research.

jim dodd

.404 Dakota

Bullet Velocity Muzzle Energy< !--color-->

350gr. 2500fps 4680ft.-lbs.

400gr. 2411fps 5115ft.-lbs.



George

George

That's the same 400 grain load as the original Kynoch loading for the 404 Jeffery. The Kynoch load for the 350 grain was 2600fps. What's the point of the 404 Dakaota?

Mickey,

The .404 Jeffery has no SAAMI status in the US, the .404 Dakota does. There is a plethora of different ".404 Jefferys" out there, but there is only one .404 Dakota.

Maybe figuring out which .404J you have (barrel diameter, headspace dimension, ammunition source) is part of the fun of hunting up such a fine old rifle. I suggested it because the original post concerned research on the Jeffery and I have been doing some (again thanks for the cartridge samples).

It isn't any more effective on animals as you know.

jim

This is a stupid question I'm sure. Where do I find loading data for the .404. I'm feeling a custom mauser project coming on.

You might just ask the old-timers Atkinson and JudgeG. They are just two of many who shoot and reload the 404.

Rusty,
Sir, I can see it now..............a 404 parrot head wildcat!!!!!! Now I am interested! At least if we could remember the spec's for the cartridge the day after his concert!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sir, thanks for making my day!

Huntr

I am having one built on a 1909 mauser, I do not need one but I like the looks of the round, like a giant .22 hornet.

When people are having there .404's built on mauser actions are they choosing to keep the charger hump or not ??

I read a story once: when a safari hunter shows up in camp with a .375 H&H, the PH immediately knows he has a practical and able chap as a customer, who will listen.

When a hunter shows up in camp with a .458 Win Mag, the PH knows that the only experience the hunter has is Outdoor Life magazine, probably 20-year-old editions.

When a hunter show up in camp with a Weatherby in any caliber, the PH knows the customer's experience does not extend past the idiot clerk at the gun counter. (He also knows the guy can't hit an elephant in the butt at 10 paces).

When a hunter shows up with a double rifle, The PH knows he has an elitest for a customer (much like when the guy coming down the charter dock at the marina is seen carrying a fly rod) and approaches him with caution.

But when a hunter shows up in camp with a 404 Jeffery, the PH knows he has someone who hs studied and respects the rich history and traditions of the sport of big game hunting; someone who cares enough about said traditions and history to go to the immense trouble of building and loading a gun and cartridge long sacrificed to the gods of mass production and commercialism. The PH takes a liking to this guy immediately.

The article didn't mention the .416 Rigby.

What a crock. The PH is probably ignorant of what a .404 Jeffery is.

If this forum is any indication, PH's should run at the very sight of a 404 and/or AR cap.

GAHUNTER
interesting article. Was it written by Atkinson

Did the article mention anything about redneck DG rifle and blaser R-93's, or artillery owners

Cheers
/ JOHAN

Johan,

Actually, I have no idea where I read it. But the things said about the 404 I vividly remember.

No, Ray didn't write it, but I'll bet he agrees with it.

Will,

I wore an AR ballcap the first day at SCI, but so many people I wanted to interview ran away I took it off.

Not really, it was too hot most of the time in the Convention Center though, and the meeting rooms were excessively warm.

jim