I`m thinking too buy a 1895 in either 450 marlin or 45/70. Want a marlin, no other gun.
Going to use the gun for moosehuntig in Norway, where the range rarely exeed 100 yards.
( Use a HK770 in .308 at the time)
I have heard the gun is " noisy " due to the ported barrel, compeared too a similar rifle without ported barrel. Is this true.!
Then , 45/70 or 450 marlin, when reload the 45/70 to too aceptable preasure in 1895, are there realy some diffrent betwen then regarding too stopping power.
Whitch one shold i go for???

Here in the US I would definitely go with the 45-70 due to ammo availability issues. In Norway and since it seems like you are going to reload anyway . . . I would still go with the 45-70 since it is a great historic cartridge with lots of class.

JMHO,

JohnTheGreek

I would go with the 45-70 and reload to get high velocity.

Johnsen:

I currently own a couple of Marlin 1895 Limiteds, both in 45-70. With handloads of 400 gr. Speer soft points over H322 I am getting between 2000 and 2100 fps. Although my 24 inch barrel length will be considerably more than your guide gun, with this kind of performance, I never saw the need to try the 450.

Also, I've used the above combination on everything from elk to Russian boar and never recovered a bullet. Meat damage has been minimal with quick, humane kills. It's done everything I expected and then some. Again, never saw a reason to go to the 450.

My stainless steel guide gun in 45-70 does not have a ported barrel.Since you reload, you can get the same velocity from the 45-70 and brass availability is much better.

I would go with the .450 Marlin. Reason is when I was building up my Ruger No.1 in the .450 Marlin cartridge I was in contact with the powers at Hornady getting all the information I could from them. In one letter from them(I still have the letter) they state that between the two calibers(.45-70 and .450 Marlin) the Marlin is the stronger of the two cases. Also I know a fellow member of our gun club that has a Ruger No.1 in .45-70 and he gets less number of loads per case than I do with my .450. The muzzle blast from a ported lever action has caused our gun club to consider banning all firearms with ported or muzzle braked equipped from the range due to the complaints from club members. No matter which caliber you get stay away from them in a ported model. Lawdog

I've been out of touch with shooting for a while. I know the 45/70 very well, but what is the 450 Marlin?

non-ported 45/70..................
woofer

The myth of stronger 450 Marlin brass rears its ugly head again! In Marlin rifles the strength of 450 brass make no difference whatsoever. You also can get just as many loads from 45-70 brass. Maybe more if the 450 brass starts to develop headspacing problems. I have Winchester 45-70 brass that has exceeded 100 loadings. Quit full length sizing that stuff!

Sure if you are loading the 450 to 60,000 PSI in a bolt action rifle there is a difference, but not in the Marlin lever gun.

Jackfish what should you do if you do not full length resize your 45/70 cases ??

450 marlin is exactly what the 45/70 can be loaded to, and the only differences between a 458 2" and a 450 marlin are PRESSURE and the taller belt on the 450. In a bolt gun, they are twins.

The 45/70 can be loaded to the same (or slightly better) vels... but if you happen to have a 1894 and say a springfield trapdoor.. the 450 marlin could prevent "metal rain" from mixing your correctly marked ammo.

... the marlin belt is taller to prevent it from being chambered into a 300 HH based chamber, that's correct.BUT I would be very nervous about the idea that it's too long/wide to prevent a 6.5 or 350 from being fired.. as lots of people have "successfully" (DO NOT DO ANY OF THESE)
fired 308 in 3006..
or 270 in a 7mag (which is a NASTY problem)..
or, the 6.5 in say a 358 norma... VERY bad,,,
or, the worst... 350 rem mag in a 7rem or 300 win... VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY bad.

[ 01-16-2003, 17:47: Message edited by: jeffeosso ]

PC, Neck size. The 45-70 is a tapered case and technically has a neck. So with the Lyman Neck Size die, for example, one can size the case even with the base of a seated bullet. For expanding, the Lyman 'M' die works the brass less than other expander plugs and leaves a nice step at the case mouth for no-hassle bullet alignment for seating.

I have a 1895G I use for all my deer hunting. The gun is a joy to shoot but, you must where ear protection at all times. 18" barrel + ports equal ringing ears and splitting headaches. Buy the 1895ss without the ports and enjoy every shot.

450 Marlin is a marketing ploy to get non-reloaders to buy a 45-70. It's like putting a belt on a 257 Roberts.

I get 2100 fps with a 300 grain Nosler Partition from my Guide Gun. It shoots into an inch at 100 yards. I think that's pretty good. I've only used to kill one deer so far. It dropped in its tracks.

Bob257

Johnsen,

I have the .45-70 GuideGun and it's ported. I really like it a lot. I've just started reloading for it and have gotten great results.
If you're shooting at a range, where other people are in close proximity, I would opt for the non-ported, but if, you're shooting heavy loads and want a quicker follow up shot, the ports really help with muzzle jump. If I had it to do all over again, the only change I would make is getting the same GG in stainless.

Joe

Ever since the 450 Marlin came out, I have wondered why..... But it gives us all another option, and that's a good thing!

As my handle suggests...I'm definately a .45-70 fan. I grew up shooting the grand ol' .45-70 in the Springfield Trapdoor, Browning 78, and Winchester 1886... So, I will always go that route. The Marlin allows the .45-70 to be loaded pretty hot...and it can be loaded even hotter in the correct rifles, so "power" is not a reason to not chose the .45-70.

The majority of opinions on this thread point to choosing the .45-70. There is a reason (or reasons!) for that. I'm going to say your answer lies in majority rule on this one!

Jackfish and his 100 loadings for brass is probably a pretty good bet...and one I don't doubt. My father just retired a few pieces of brass that were among the very first brass when he started playing with the .45-70 nearly 40 years ago. I'd say those cases earned their retirement.

The .45-70 will handle moose without the slightest bit of hesitation.

It's funny... by going with "stronger brass" your making a weaker gun.

Here's a pic of my .450 Marlin. Have put a couple of upgrades on her . The stock is not finished yet, I still need to do the checkering.

.450 marlin has something like 7 or 8% less powder capacity then 45-70 other than that have fun either will do nicely

check out www.wildwestguns.com for marlin lever action stuff!!! web page

Efryman,

So one CAN make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

Nice rifle. Don't be afraid now to take it out and scratch it up.

I've been told Marlin either is not porting Guideguns now or porting is optional. I always wondered why they felt porting was particularly advantageous.

[ 01-17-2003, 15:52: Message edited by: steve y ]

efryman,

very nice!

I have a 45-70 guidegun as well.I have got Ashley ghost ring sight on it. It has taken alot of abuse. About a total of 7 months in a scabard on a horse. Not much bluing left. I am shooting Varget and 405gr.Rem bullets. I have dumped 2 very large bull moose(and a horse) with the gun and these loads. The ported muzzle noise dosen't seem to bother me to much.
I have shot 410 shells out of mine. Not sure if you are supposed to do that, but I have. It comes in handy now and then. Patterns are shit.
One thing I would like to do to my Marlin, is to have a small roll pin put through the cross bolt safety so that it CANNOT be put on. I carry a magazine full of ammo on an empty chamber. The safety has been "ON" or activated from being carried in the scabard or from pulling it out. This has made life stressful a couple of times. I, for some reason have never got use to that safety and I don't like it.

I would go 45/70.

Daryl

Eryf!!!
mWOW!!!!!! i mean WOWWWW great wood..

Marlin is now making a 20 or 22 non ported version..
jeffe

Yukoner... three options for the safey... #1 remove it.
#2 Remover your stock and readjust it. Use the set screw on the inside to lock it in the "fire" position. #3 buy the safety replacement (The URL for which escapes me at the moment) kit. Looks like a slotted screw head on both sides. No safety, just fills the hole.

That's sure some pretty wood he's got there. I just "downgraded" mine... chopped it to 16 inches, thinned the forend and took 3/4" or so off the stock and added a Kick-Eez pad. Wish I could make it shorter.

cas,

That's great! thanks for that info, I owe you one. I would like to post a picture of my Marlin. It already looks like an antique. It shoots good though and reliable(other than that damn safety), it is my insurance policy.

Daryl

One of the guys at work told me that you can get a c-clip and clip the safety in the "off" position. I'll give it a try this weekend.

Ok.. this is the cheap way... but if you shoot yourself cause your safety don't work, ya didn't hear it from me.

The shaft of the safety uses a ball detent system. There's a ball bearing with a spring inside the frame. The shaft of the safety has two grooves cut in it, for the ballbearing to sit in.
What you need to do is move the safety so it's in the fire position, and tighten down the ball detent to lock it in place. What your doing is over adjusting it, so it doesn't move. Simple to do.




I'll post the link to the replacement kit, once the server is back up. I keep meaning to buy one, just keep forgetting.

Oh yeah... and if you leave your guide gun sitting on top of your monitor for a week, don't forget to blow the dust off it before your take pictures.

Cas,

Thanks for the tip. I just did it on my rifle, saves me the time to look for a c-clip.

Well... since we've really hijacked this thread, i might as well keep going. Here's the link for the Marlin safety replacement "kit". http://www.sixgunner.com/comments/safetykit.htm