Hi
what was the original loading and velocity of old 375 H&H made by british compaies like kynoch. which kind of powder and charge was used?
regards
yes

My old Cartridges of the World (I can't tell if it's 6th or 8th edition) gives the following data for the .375 H&H:

235 grain: MV--2800 fps (853 m/s) Powder: 62 grains Cordite

270 grain: MV--2650 fps (808 m/s) Powder: 61 grains Cordite

300 grain: MV--2500 fps (762 m/s) Powder: 58 grains Cordite

My guess is the Cordite loads would be the original specifications, but I could be wrong.

Hope this helps.

hi
thanks oldguy for your reply
with such a low amount of powder compared to todays factory loads with slow burning powder and heavy english style rifles the recoil should be much less and more pleasent to shoot.
regards
yes

You're certainly welcome, yes.

Sometimes "Cartridges of the World" has been guilty of inaccuracies, but what I gave you looks about halfway right IMO.

I have been told that the old British loads for the .375 H&H are "enemic" by US loadings. As loaded by the big 3, the average pressure is over 50K PSI.

Most, if not all, those British load quotes were way off base..They did sell a lot of guns and ammo based on those velocity quotes..and as I have always suspected the lower velocities killed about as well as the higher velocities.

Some years ago I shot tested some old 300 gr. softs and solids or several makes and the .375 velocities were closer to 2290 FPS average for all rounds tested with the high and low taken out. They were old European make including Kynoch in the red/yellow boxes. I still have a lot of that old ammo in some calibers like .404, 450-400 and 10.75x68..shot up all the .375 in that test. The 450-400 was about 1900 FPS, the 404 was 2000 FPS as I recall.

In all fairness the ammo was very old and may lost its umph!, but I doubt it as it was very clean, just old.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Most, if not all, those British load quotes were way off base..They did sell a lot of guns and ammo based on those velocity quotes..and as I have always suspected the lower velocities killed about as well as the higher velocities.

Some years ago I shot tested some old 300 gr. softs and solids or several makes and the .375 velocities were closer to 2290 FPS average for all rounds tested with the high and low taken out. They were old European make including Kynoch in the red/yellow boxes.

Kynoch's standard velocities for the .375 were taken in 28" barrels, not 24". As a result, they're often accused of having a lot of "blue sky" in those figures, when there actually was none.

quote:

The 450-400 was about 1900 FPS

Odd. Late run Kynoch Cordite from '67 and '72 still runs 2060-2070 in my rifle.

quote:

In all fairness the ammo was very old and may lost its umph!, but I doubt it as it was very clean, just old.

Sounds like it just wasn't stored in correct conditions for a time somewhere along the way.
-----------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

Unfortunately few of the ammunition manufacturers have published the barrel length used for their published velocity and energy readings prior to the current standardization by CIP and SAAMI. I’ve read that prior to 1950 that US, British, and European ammunition manufacturers 28â€-30†barrels for their published velocity and energy readings. The articles didn’t so state but did allude to 30†barrels being the norm with shorter to 28†barrels being the exception.

Now, now, a 28 inch barrel is what blue sky is made of...

Hi
another question for you. wasn't this caliber enough for african hunting with those anemic british loads?
regards
yes

It would not supprise me that long barrels like 29" were used to quote MV for early smokeless powders.
Look at all the old military rifles made in the late 1800's with long barrels (by todays standards) long barrel seemed to be the norm in the early decade of smokeless powder.

I read a magazine article about a year or two ago that said early 375H&H MV was: 235gr @ 2750fps, 270gr @ 2500fps and 300gr @ 2400fps.

Maybe this was for the flanged style of 375H&H I read the flanged stuff was loaded with slightly reduce MV verses the rimless/belted case.

I have a substantial amount of Cordite-loaded 303 ball ammo from 1917 that has been stored outside in temps ranging from +113 to -20 and it still has the same "omph" it had when I bought it in the 80s. I think Cordite is stable on the whole, but fluctuates with temp at the time of use.

The loads that 'someoldguy' lists above are the same as those shown in the reprint of the 1955 Kynoch booklet in Hoyem's "History and Development of Small Arms Ammunition, Vol. Three," for the "375 Belted Rimless Magnum Nitro-Express (Holland)." Barrel length is listed as 28".

The 1925 Nobel Industries Limited (then owner of the Kynoch brand name) catalogue (reprinted by Armory Publications) does not identify the powder type, only that it is smokeless. The charges listed are: 65 gr. with the 235 gr. copper point or pointed FMC; 62 gr. with the 270 gr. PSP; and 60 gr. with the 300 gr. FMC, RNSP, or RN Split bullet. The ballistics table only had data for the 270 gr. load: 2700 fps, barrel length unspecified. Pressure at 60°F was quoted as 20 tons (that's long tons, 2240 lb each).

Cheers, Al

Funny but my original Brit falling block rifles have 28" bbls. So does a custom I am building currently.....gotta love blue skies.
Steve

Kevin Robertson, in his recent book on buffalo hunting, writes a good bit on old Kynoch published velocities. He has a Belgian 505 Gibbs with a longer than normal barrel ( fairly big fellow ). He got a hold of quite a haul of Kynoch ammo that he reprimed with modern Berdan primers. They were very consistant at 2150 when all the literature says they should be 2300. Similarly, he shot a lot of original 416 Rigby that was only averaging 2190, which is not too much faster than the 450/400 is SUPPOSED to be. The simple fact of the matter is these and other old calibers worked and they were a lot easier to shoot even though they were putting out closer to 4000 fp's than the magical 5000.