The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores 458 Lott reduced loadsGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I would like to know if anyone has any information on reduced loads for a 458 Lott with 4759 and 5744 powders. I have 300 350 and 400 grain bullets. I would like to get mild recoil because this is a single shot pistol and standard loads are very hard to shoot with the large amount of recoil they produce. Ross | ||
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Good grief, Ross, that made me swallow hard! I assume you are not jesting? BTW, I am very interested in reduced load data for my .458 Lott rifle. JP | |||
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Hey Guys The lightest loads I am showing on my load data is 55/IMR 4198 and a 405 Remington bullet at 1947 fps. Same load with a 350 Hornady is 2040 fps. I have always found IMR 4198 excellent in either 458 Win, 458 Lott and my 458 B&M for light loads. You can easy drop things from 55 down to get where you want, I never used fillers or anything either. But I still use Fed 215s. Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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I just use the IMR4320 but not as mutch for the smaller bullets. I used the same amout for 350gr bullets. | |||
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Hogkiller is the authority on reduced loads for the .458 Lott. MMP | |||
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An email I got form Johan @ AA a few months ago Caliber: .458 Lott. Application: Rifle. Barrel length: 24” Powder: Accurate -- 5744. Bullet weight: 300grains. Low load: 47.0 grains (1900 – 2000 ft/p/sec). Max load: 68.0 grains (2600 – 2700 ft/p/sec) Max pressure!! Bullet weight: 350grains. Low load: 44.0grains (1800 – 1900 ft/p/sec) Max load: 63.0 grains (2450 – 2550 ft/p/sec). Max pressure!! Bullet weight: 400-405 grains. Low load: 42.0grains (1750 – 1850 ft/p/sec) Mid range load: 52.0grains (2025-2125 ft/p/sec) Max load: 61.0 grains (2300 – 2400 ft/p/sec). Max pressure!! Bullet weight: 460 grains. Low load: 40.0grains (1600 – 1700 ft/p/sec) Max load: 56.0 grains (2100 – 2200 ft/p/sec). Max pressure!! Bullet weight: 500grains. Low load: 38.0grains (1500 – 1600 ft/p/sec) Mid range load: 46.0 grains (1800-1900 ft/p/sec) Max load: 54.0 grains (2000 – 2100 ft/p/sec). Max pressure!! Rod -------------------------------- "A hunter should not choose the cal, cartridge, and bullet that will kill an animal when everything is right; rather, he should choose ones that will kill the most efficiently when everything goes wrong" Bob Hagel | |||
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You can start looking at BP loads for 45/90, etc. Have a look at velocity and then replicate. I run .459" dia. Oregon Trails "LaserCast" (lead) bullets in both 45/70 Govt. and .458 Win. Mag. Smokeles, Hodgdon 4895. -- Look at 45/70 Govt. loads in smokeless. I look at reduced loads and velocties for lead ball, 45/70, 45/90 caliber falling block rifles. | |||
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For a reduced load I just use less powder. Then I run it thew my Congraph To see if its ware I want to be. I haven't reduced any loads for my 458 Lott. But if I did thats how I'd do it. | |||
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I have a surfeit of Hornady .458 DGS 500 GR Bullets. I intend to use the above charge of Accurate 5744 powder with Hornady .458 Lott cases and Remington 9 1/2M primers. Will I still need to crimp the cases in the bullet cannelure with this reduced load? Intended usage is paper target shooting at 50yds. Thank you for all responses. James "Growing old is not for sissies" | |||
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In his book, Rifles for Africa, Gregor Woods discusses the use of 550 gr Woodleighs launched at about 2,067 fps out of his Lott for use on buffalo in herds to avoid full pass throughs to avoid wounding other unintended game. | |||
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My plinking load is: 68.0 grs IMR-4895 Rem 405 gr Hornady brass Fed 215 3.53" oal 2112 fps 24" barrel Keith IGNORE YOUR RIGHTS AND THEY'LL GO AWAY!!! ------------------------------------ We Band of Bubbas & STC Hunting Club, The Whomper Club | |||
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Bump. "Growing old is not for sissies" | |||
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I own the 458 Lott but I don't use those powders I use IMR4320. | |||
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Thank you, jro45. James "Growing old is not for sissies" | |||
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It was off to the range today: Rifle: CZ 550, American Safari, .458 Lott (/.458 Win. Mag.), Open iron sights, weight: 10lbs. Ammunition: reloads using Hornady New Dimension dies, RCBS Rock-Chucker press Brass: Hornady Powder: Accurate 5744 - 38 grains (no fillers) Primers: Remington 9 1/2M Magnum rifle Bullets: Hornady 500 grain DGS - .458 dia. Full length resized without crimping. I shot twenty rounds in four five shot groups from the bench at 25 yds. This was mainly a function/performance test although the groups were nice and tight (3 inches high) given the handicap of iron sights and my diminished eyesight. The recoil was quite mild and the shooting experience pleasurable - I could have comfortably shot many more rounds during this range session. I single loaded cartridges directly into the chamber, over-riding two dummy rounds that I kept in the magazine in order to check uncrimped bullet set-back resulting from recoil. After the first five round string I removed and checked the dummy rounds -- they had both set-back in the cases approx 1/8". I think I will crimp future loadings in the bullet cannelure. The powder performed flawlessly -- extraction of fired cases was easy and they were in excellent condition. I fired three factory loaded cartridges offhand before I departed the range -- just to remind myself how brutal the .458 Lott recoil can be! An aside: I was already a fervant fan of Western Powders after using their "Blackhorn" powder for my inline muzzleloading (Thompson Center .50 caliber "Bone Collector") -- it revolutionized the sport for me -- no bore fouling (you can shoot numerous rounds without cleaning between shots), easy breech plug extraction, easy cleaning of the bore upon completion of shooting using regular cleaner such as Hoppes #9. After the performance of "Accurate 5744" I am an even greater fan of Western Powders. James "Growing old is not for sissies" | |||
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I hand loaded some cartridges using the following prescription: Hodgdon IMR "Trail Boss" powder - 18.2 grains minimum load (70% of carefully measured 26 grains of case capacity using once fired factory brass and new factory bullet) - based on this Hogdon (PDF) page I shot the following groups from the bench at 50 yds this morning under very breezy conditions .....  ..... bottom five shot group using 500 grain Hornady DGS bullets - top three shot group using 500 grain Hornady DGX bullets. This was a test of recoil effect (very light indeed) and grouping capability (no sight adjustment). CZ 550 American Safari Magnum rifle - .458 Lott caliber. Nikon "Buckmaster" 1x20 scope sight in Talley QD mounts. Caveat: My handloads work in my rifle. You may not achieve the same results in your rifle using the same load and components. Always refer to the data published by Hodgdon relating to their IMR Trail Boss Reduced Loads For Rifle and Pistol James "Growing old is not for sissies" | |||
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Short afternoon session at the range. Hand loads using 18.5 grains of Hodgdon IMR "Trail Boss" powder (minimum load plus .3 grains), Hornady twice fired brass, Hornady 500 grain DGS bullets, Remington 9 1/2M magnum rifle primers. CZ 550 American Safari Magnum rifle - .458 Lott caliber. Nikon "Buckmaster" 1x20 scope sight in Talley QD mounts/rings. Shooting from the bench under calm conditions - 70 F temperature - bright sunshine - Caldwell rifle rest.  Three shot group at 50 yards (after two sighting-in shots).  Five shot group at 50 yards (sight adjustment verification).  Three shot group at 100 yards (3" POI drop from 50 yards). I don't think the groups are too bad - considering my diminished eighty year old eyesight and accompanying trigger finger tremor. I will shoot strings using this loading (and components) through the Chronograph this coming weekend Caveat: My handloads work in my rifle. You may not achieve the same results in your rifle using the same load and components. Always refer to the data published by Hodgdon relating to their IMR Trail Boss Reduced Loads For Rifle and Pistol James "Growing old is not for sissies" | |||
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The components:  Hornady thrice fired brass (cleaned) - Hornady 500 grain DGS bullet - 18.5 grains of Hodgdon IMR "Trail Boss" powder (minimum load plus .3 grains) - completed cartridge Note the bulky, "fluffy", "cheerio shaped" powder. Caveat: My handloads work in my rifle. You may not achieve the same results in your rifle using the same load and components. Always refer to the data published by Hodgdon relating to their IMR Trail Boss Reduced Loads For Rifle and Pistol James "Growing old is not for sissies" | |||
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Twenty shot string from the bench using a Caldwell rifle rest through a "Pro-Chrono" digital chronograph positioned 15ft in front of 25" barrel muzzle -- High velocity: 729fps, Low velocity: 691fps, Average velocity: 710fps. Calm weather conditions, 75 F temperature - bright sunshine. Clean, complete powder burn. Caveat: My handloads work in my rifle. You may not achieve the same results in your rifle using the same load and components. Always refer to the data published by Hodgdon relating to their IMR Trail Boss Reduced Loads For Rifle and Pistol prior to formulating your own handloads. James "Growing old is not for sissies" | |||
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My own goal is to produce safe hand loads that are comfortable to shoot from the bench for prolonged periods; will produce consistent, reasonably accurate, target groups; serve as suitable close range light game hunting loads. The near minimum (Hodgdon data) loads I am presently using in my CZ 550 American Magnum Safari .458 Lott rifle fall short of the "light game hunting suitability" criterion. I want to achieve approximately 1000 fps muzzle velocity with 500 grain bullets which will produce 1100 foot lbs of muzzle energy. I will work slowly to that end. Caveat: My handloads work in my rifle. You may not achieve the same results in your rifle using the same load and components. Always refer to the data published by Hodgdon relating to their IMR Trail Boss Reduced Loads For Rifle and Pistol prior to formulating your own handloads. "Growing old is not for sissies" | |||
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Why not just down load a 45-70, 200fps.  | |||
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Because I don't own a 45-70 nor do I intend to own one. "Growing old is not for sissies" | |||
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Why drive a Ferrari at 30 when you can do it in a KIA. The Lott is versatile. WOODY Everyone is allowed an opinion, even if its wrong. | |||
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Early morning Range session -- very light breezes -- ideal for chronograph usage. Hand loads using Hodgdon IMR "Trail Boss" powder; Hornady five times fired brass; HSM 405 grain lubricated, cast bullets (.458 diameter); Remington 9 1/2M magnum rifle primers; CZ 550 American Safari Magnum rifle - .458 Lott caliber. Shooting from the bench under calm conditions - 70 F temperature - bright sunshine - Caldwell rifle rest. Bullet velocity measured using a ProChrono chronograph positioned 12 feet from the rifle barrel muzzle. I opted for 405 grain bullets for better ballistic balance and cost savings. I loaded four groups of five cartridges (using Hodgdon IMR Trail Boss powder data) in 2 grain increments from a near minimum of 19 grains to a near maximum of 25 grains (I never use maximum loads as a matter of principle). Bullets were seated to the crimping groove but were not crimped -- I believed the very light recoil produced by these loadings would not result in bullet set-back in the box magazine -- this proved to be the case as rounds were chambered via the magazine (flawlessly), two and three, without any set-back. Below: HSM 405 grain lubricated cast lead bullet (top) Fired Hornady cartridge case (middle) Hornady 500 grain DGS factory jacketed bullet (bottom) Showing relative OL lengths of bullets, seating position in case and location of crimping grooves (seated to this index)  I used magnum rifle primers to insure optimum powder burn -- fired cases were clean with no evidence of unburnt powder granules. The 19 grain (near minimum) loading produced the best target groupings and the most consistent velocities: 1165 fps 1157 fps 1160 fps 1169 fps 1169 fps 1164 fps average - 1157 low/1169 high This average velocity with 405 grain bullets equates to 1219 ft/lbs energy (at 12 feet from the rifle muzzle). The oft quoted minimum striking energy for taking white tail deer and other thin-skinned animals is 1000 ft/lbs -- therefor I believe this loading meets my requirement for a suitable close range light game hunting load. Caveat: My handloads work in my rifle. You may not achieve the same results in your rifle using the same load and components. Always refer to the data published by Hodgdon relating to their IMR Trail Boss Reduced Loads For Rifle and Pistol prior to formulating your own handloads. James "Growing old is not for sissies" | |||
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Yes, that is correct. James "Growing old is not for sissies" | |||
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The HSM 405 grain cast bullet loads began to show signs of barrel leading and I am therefor switching to Remington 405 grain jacketed soft point bullets. Morning session at the range. Hand loads using 19 grains of Hodgdon IMR "Trail Boss" powder; Hornady six times fired brass (full length resized); Remington 405 grain SP jacketed bullets; Remington 9 1/2M magnum rifle primers. CZ 550 American Safari Magnum rifle - .458 Lott caliber. Nikon "Buckmasters" 1x20 scope sight in Talley QD mounts/rings. Shooting from the bench under calm conditions - 80 F temperature - bright sunshine - Caldwell rifle rest. six shot groups at 50 yards.   1171 fps average through the Chronograph set at 15 feet from the barrel muzzle. Caveat: My handloads work in my rifle to my satisfaction. You may not achieve the same results in your rifle using the same load and components. Always refer to the data published by Hodgdon relating to their IMR Trail Boss Reduced Loads For Rifle and Pistol prior to formulating your own handloads. James "Growing old is not for sissies" | |||
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My latest load and range firing results: Morning session at the range. Hand loads using 20 grains of Hodgdon IMR "Trail Boss" powder; Hornady 458 Lott seven times fired brass (full length resized); Remington 405 grain SP jacketed bullets (uncrimped - no evidence of recoil set-back); Remington 9 1/2M magnum rifle primers: COL: 3.40":  CZ 550 American Safari Magnum rifle - .458 Lott caliber. Nikon "Buckmasters" 1x20 scope sight in Talley QD mounts/rings. Shooting from the bench under calm and overcast conditions (ideal for chronograph use) - 80 F temperature - 1170 fps average through the Chronograph set at 15 feet from the (25") barrel muzzle - nice 3 shot groups at 50 yds:  This concludes my experiments using IMR Trail Boss powder for reduced loads in my CZ 550 cal. 458 Lott rifle. I will use the above recipe from here on for range paper target shooting. Although this loading produces a creditable close range small game cartridge, I no longer hunt. I prefer jacketed bullets - the Remington 405 grain soft points are quite inexpensive - frequently available at less than $30 per hundred. Caveat: My handloads work in my rifle to my satisfaction. You may not achieve the same results in your rifle using the same load and components. Always refer to the data published by Hodgdon relating to their IMR Trail Boss Reduced Loads For Rifle and Pistol prior to formulating your own handloads. James "Growing old is not for sissies" | |||
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I am shooting 74 grains of IMR 4895 with 300 and 350 grain | |||
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