I have yet to shoot a .416 Remington Mag, and all the books I have read state that this round will do it all, but at what cost; What's the recoil like, say with 350 gr. bullet at 2600 fps? Is the knock down power that much more over the old standby 375 h&h?
I got a 1999 Montana action on order. I figure that the action, barrel & stock should come in 9 lbs when completed..........Just trying to get the feel for the 416 Rem.....Or stick with 375 H&H.

Thanks,

[ 02-08-2003, 11:13: Message edited by: CK ]

Only you can answer that question, I cannot tell much if any difference in it and a 375 all things being equal....

You can always load it down to 2200 or 2300 and lower the recoil considerably and still shoot Cape Buffalo, Lion or elephant with it without any problems.

My 416 rem is a Ruger No1, it weighs 9.75lbs w/scope.

I'd say the recoil with 350 gr. bullets is manageable, especially if you've shot a 375 H&H at all. It is heavier, but not too much.

A 9 lb. 416 shooting 350 gr. @ 2600 fps, recoils with 58 ft-lbs of recoil, and 20 fps, recoil velocity.

A 9 lb. 375 shooting 300 gr. @ 2600 fps, recoils with 46 ft-lbs, and 18 fps, recoil velocity.

CK, I am also having a magnum 1999 built. I have settled on a .375 H&H, The .416 is really only better than the .375 on big bears here in AK, and the .375 is supposed to be plenty good. Also, the .375 is much cheaper to shoot and more pleasant, so at least in my case, Im sure Ill shoot my .375 better than if it were a .416. Have fun
Ian

I agree with Ray.

The .416 Remington and the .375 H&H aren't that far apart in terms of felt recoil, but the .416 gives you a lot more versatility and stopping power on big and/or tenacious, agressive, dangerous animals like cape buffalo, lion, and coastal brown bear. If you can shoot a .375 well, you can shoot a .416. I can't think of a more practical, more manageable, or more widely-available over-.375 caliber cartridge than the .416 Remington, and I prize mine.

It can also be had in a lighter, faster-handling package than a .416 Rigby, for example, which is a factor than might just save your life sometime. If you ever compare the size, weight, and girth of the average .416 Rigby, then compare it to the average rifle in .416 Remington and handle them both, you'll be astounded at how much more nimble the .416 Remington really it.

You'll hear the claim that the .416 Remington, since it's a smaller case, must operate at higher pressures than the .416 Rigby in order to achieve the same ballistics, and that's true. However, I've yet to hear that to ever be a problem for anyone who has actually used that cartridge in Africa or anywhere else. Heck, high-pressure cartridges like the 7mm Rem., .300 Win., .338 Win., and the various Weatherby cartridges have been used for decades in Africa, and in some very hot weather, and I don't recall of any reports of pressure problems.

AD

I have a 416 rem, (2400)it seems to be less recoil than a rigby(2400) at the same vel (shot from ruger and cz) and lots more than the taylor(2250) all shooting 400 grain pills.

I like my 416 rem, BUT, i am constantly saying, "it's the same thing as the rigby" .....

I am pretty certain there's a couple 416's that you could shoot in Yew-know!!!

all in all, it is the rigby, in a same package. The recoil IS more than a 375, but not a hell of a lot

jeffe

CK,

My 416 Rem's recoil is more noticeable when shooting from the bench, when compared to my 375. Shooting in the field, I notice more muzzle rise in the 416, but not that much more recoil.

Regards,

Terry

I LOVE my Model 70 .416 Rem Mag. As others have already said, the recoil is not much different from a .375 and the package is generally MUCH more managable than a big .416 Rigby. Sure, ammo is pricier than the .375 but if you are actaully going to shoot the weapon and are simultaneously actually buying factory ammo for EITHER calibre, you are in a bit of trouble financially. Assuming you purchase premium components, it will not be much more expensive to reload for the .416 Rem than for the .375. Regarding the "pressure problem" issue that has been mentioned . . . this is, as far as I can tell, complete BUNK. I have taken game in weather from -30 to +110 with the exact same, very near maximum, loads with ZERO difficulties. Not so much as a hint of excess pressure. I suggest that you buy a model 70, get a gunsmith to slick it up a bit, loc-tite the front and rear sights down, glass bed the lugs and action and you will be in business my friend. If I may be so bold, might I also suggest the 2.5x Leupold compact scope.

Best Regards and HAPPY HUNTING!

JohnTheGreek

The blab about the Rigby being so bulky as to get you killed is bunk. HORSE FEATHERS!!! One can praise the .416 Remington without lying about the .416 Rigby, eh?

I own 6 different .416 caliber rifles and am thoroughly familiar with the issues.

My Winchester M-70 Safari Express in .416 Remington Magnum weighs 9 lbs. 1 oz. right out of the box and shoots 1 MOA.

My CZ 550 Safari Magnum in .416 Rigby weighed 8 lbs. 14 oz. right out of the box and shoots 3/4 MOA.

The .416 Remington is a great cartridge and rifle package in a Winchester M70 or custom rifle.

However, the .416 Rigby is the best cartridge and rifle package of all time for the big game hunter. I am not alone in thinking this. Many fellow members have realized what a peach of a cartridge it is, as it is gratifying to see so many turning the CZ into works of .416 Rigby art.

.416 Remington Magnum shooters do well to imitate the grand Rigby, though they work at pressures around 60 K psi to do so, while King Rigby loafs along in the 40's K psi, and he doesn't even wear a belt.

If I had to choose just one rifle for all big game, it would be a light and handy .416 Rigby that fit me perfectly. Ahhhhh, what a comforting thought.

Amazing how the .416 Rem threads bring out the Rigby knockers.

According to popular medical theory this condition is called "Rigby Envy" often bought on from the onset of depression and an inferiority complex combined with the realisation that they made a major F#$%@ up choosing the .416 Rem over the .416 Rigby, only known cure is to purchase a rifle in .416 Rigby

This thread is driving me whacko I have a M70 416 Rem Mag that is very accurate, and if it did not have a "history" in Africa, it would be gone, and I would be in line for a Rigby. Can't tell you why, guess it goes along with walnut stocks, and double 470's.

Next rifle will be a 9.3X74, probably a Blaser 95, but then I read a thread about the 416 Rigby, I need to win the lotto

Jim

[ 02-09-2003, 06:32: Message edited by: JBoutfishn ]

CK:

Use your 1999 Montana Action to chamber a 416 Hoffman/Remington. Magazine capacity is the same as the great 375 H&H. The 416 will offer a wider power band. The 416 Hoffman/Remington is an extremely well balanced cartridge. Standard deviation in velocity is less tha 10 fps! Accuracy is extreme. Felt recoil is comparable to the 375 H&H.

Talk with Sterling Davenport about his integrated expansion chamber barrel for recoil management. Sterling's telephone number in Tucson, AZ is 520-749-5590.

Regards,

Buliwyf

Buliwyf,

Thanks, I'll do that................Sounds like the 416 Rem. Mag might fit my needs as the bear & moose buster. I've also researched my reloading books since posting this thread, the data is impressive.

HI,

I look at both and I also came to the conclusion that a 416 Rigby is the way to go.I will have custom work done on my cz550 and it will weight around 8.5 pounds without scope.Thanks,Kev

Wise man you are, Kev. Good decision.

Comparing the 416 Rigby, 416 Rem., 404 Jefferys and for that matter the 416 Chatfield Tayore is simple a waste of time...They are all equal for all practical purposes...

I chose the 416 Rem. for one reason only, and that is it comes in a slimmer, trimmer action with a drop magazine and it will hold one more round....

That is/was my choice and reasoning and had nothing to do with the 416 Rigby as a caliber, it is one damn fine cartridge...Same reason I chose the 404 Jefferys....

Notice I make no reference to weight as I would want either to weigh 9 lbs. minimum...and 9.5 is better. High pressure is not a legitamate issue or we must give up our 270, 338, all magnums.

If I am going to use that big action then it will be a 505 Gibbs or 500 Jefferys...

I see no reason to compare, both will do. Which ever way one goes is correct..To argue the point has no validity...

Amen, Brother Ray! Of course if anyone says a .416 Rigby will get you killed, then that is indeed a cause for a little bit of discussion.

When I shoot my 416 Rem with a 400gr bullet loaded at 2435 fps standing it rocks me I can't feel any recoil. It's just like someone shoving you by pushing your shoulder.

If I were to buy a 416 today, I'd just go down and pick up a CZ 550 416 Rigby, you simply can't get a better 416 for the price.

If I were to build a 416, it would be on the MRC 1999 and it would be a 416 remington, for all the reasons stated above.

I keep trying to convince myself to get a 416 of some flavor, but can't seem to bring myself to it. I have a 350 Rigby which is a fine medium bore, and will be building a 350 Rem mag for my mountain rifle. I just recieved my 500 Jeffrey, and have a 458 lott in the works.

With the 458 lott, I just don't see what a 416 would offer me. With 350's @ 2500 fps it is a pussycat to shoot, and will flatten any NA game inside 250 yds. With 500's @ 2300 fps, it is more gun than any 416 ever will be, and so long as you make the gun heavy enough to be shootable, recoil isn't an issue.

The best thing about the 500 Jeffrey is it is the best recoil training tool. After firing the 500, everything smaller feels like it has no recoil

Paul H

Your theory about the .500 Jeffery being a great recoil training tool is 100% correct. I used to own a 17 pound bull-pup .50 BMG and routinely fired it from the bench. Recoil from pretty much anything else doesn't bother me anymore.

JohnTheGreek

Paul H,
Good points.

A .458 Whatever may be a harder hitter than a .416 Whatever rifle.

The 416 Whatever is a bit more versatile for moving a good BC 300 to 350 grain bullet at 2700 fps or more, for plains game, or long range shots on smaller game. And the 400 grainers at 2400 fps are enough for anything, with the right bullet. Many famous elephant hunters, past and present, chose the .416 Rigby above all others for their hunting and backup purposes.

Your comments about your 500 Jeffery being good immunization for recoil are right on. "If it doesn't kill you it will make you stronger." The .510 JAB/500 A2 has served me well in that regard. 600 grainers at 2400 fps or 750 grainers at 2150 fps from a 10.75 pound rifle.

I must confess that for the 750 grainers I attach a scope and muzzle brake and get the rifle up to 12.5 pounds for target practice.

I got a real boost to my immunity by visiting Mitch and firing 43 rounds of 750 and 900 grain 577 Tyrannosaur loads.

The primary immunization should consist of at least 12 shots taken with 750 grainers at 2500 fps or 900 grainers at 2300 fps, from a rifle weighing 14 lbs. or less, with or without a muzzle brake. The extra noise from the brake is just as punishing as any recoil, for flinch immunization purposes, and has no effect on torquing of the forearm gripping hand.

Two boosters of at least 12 shots, as above, are also recommended to complete the series.

This may be accomplished over three weekend visits to an indoor or outdoor range.

At least one week between boosters is recommended.

I think I am pretty well known for selling lots of 416's.
I sell 416 Rem Mags more than any big bore rifle and that includes 375's.
I have never sold more than one 416 Wby if that and very little ammo for it.
I sell one to two Rigbys a year and about that much ammo too.
I have 416 Rem Mag ammo in case lot loads because it sells.
Like Ray says, the rifle does not require as large an action, you normally get one more round, the ammo is a damn site less expensive, you can forget that high pressure BS and things fall dead at the correct end.
The Rigby is a fine cartridge but if you are selling big bore rifles your main meals are coming from the Rem Mags and the Lotts in these days and times. Hell, I sell more 470 doubles that I sell Rigbys in a years time. Damn sure more 470 NE ammo.
I am not unhappy with the famous Rigby...it just does not put much money in my safari fund.

Dagga,
I have never heard of a 416 Rigby getting anyone killed except one time..That was in an arguement over which gun was the best and the 416 Rem guy shot the 416 Rigby guy...and the SOB lived!! I have never been a Rigby fan since that day...

In all honesty I am getting a bit long in the tooth and packing a heavy gun is getting more burdensome all the time....

I really like my 6.5 lb. 404 Jefferys with its skinny European Schenable stock and flat bolt...It has a lip flutter factor of 20 minutes after each shot, but that's Ok because it takes me that long to get my thumb out of my nose.....

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