Hello, first time poster here...

I have been in the market for a 375H&H for a while now and my first inclination is to go with a CZ550 American. I have been cruising the web looking to see what's out there in the way of new and used rifles.

I spotted this on Gunbroker over the weekend:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=107191912

No one bid on the initial listing, and this is now the second listing for the same rifle. My question is, why is no one interested in this gun? What mistake would I be making by taking this one at $799?

I know it is a push-feed design, but other than that, it has cross-bolts, fully adjustable open sights. What is the fear out there over the A-Bolt?

Thanks

I think the pushfeed is the problem on any DGR. I know some don't agree, but most that have hunted DG like a control feed rifle...

I like the Browning A-Bolt. I just got one in 375 H&H and it shoots great. This past weekend I shot a three round group at 100yds. all inside a circle the size of a quarter. I was using 270gr Barnes TSX.

I also have two other A-Bolts in 270 win and 300 win mag and they also shoot great.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
I think the pushfeed is the problem on any DGR. I know some don't agree, but most that have hunted DG like a control feed rifle...

Why would "amateur" or sport hunter care?
Most of the guys here must think they're WDM Bell, Southerland, 'Pondoro',....

Mr Julian, if you like the rifle, go ahead and get it. Many of us strongly prefer CRF rifles, in particular Mausers and Model 70's, but you need not adopt our preferences.

Julian,

What are you planning to use it for? I prefer CRF rifles but I do own a couple PFs.

If it were me I would much rather have the CZ or better yet a M70 as they are both CRF but if you're not planning to use it for DG I don't think that CRF vs. PF is all that much of a consideration. I do think that you will find that a CRF is easier to resell.

Also, I know the gunsmith Mark Penrod pretty well and he says that the A-Bolt is a really lousy design and he can't believe it is still on the market (I can already feel the shitstorm coming down on me) but Mark is a pretty dyed in the wool M70 guy so take that for what it's worth.

Me being one who likes the A-Bolt just let me say I have taken all kinds of North American game and in Africa I have taken from steenbok all the way up to buffalo with them with no problems whatsoever.

But when it comes down to it, it is one's own preference as to PF vs CRF. So go with what you like and are comfortable with.

I can say that I have seen one A-Bolt jam up terribly on an elk hunt when mud was gotten into the grooves of the bolt.

I have an A Bolt in 7mm Rem mag that I paid $400.00 for at a Miami gun show fifteen years ago. It is extremely accurate and I have taken both North American and African game with it out past 350 yds. I wouldn't hesitate to take a 400 yd. shot with it. It has never let me down in temps from munus 20 F. to plus 100 F.

Had a 2.5 lb trigger job done on and I'm leaving my Dakota 7mm home this deer season and taking the Browning.

My DG rifle's a Mod 70, and I wouldn't trade it for a Browning. It's really up to you. That thin recoil pad on the one pictured would give me pause for thought, though.

quote:

Originally posted by mrjulian_1970:
I know it is a push-feed design

If this rifle is to be used on dangerous game IMO it is complete taboo to use a push-feed design. The CZ you were looking at is a far better choice. If you are going to shoot elk, moose, and black bear the Browning will be fine, your call.

My chances of ever getting to Africa for a Buff hunt are really pretty slim. I was just wondering if there was some serious issue out there with A-Bolt II's. For a new-in-the-box gun that looks that "pretty", in THE classic big bore caliber... for it not to sell after (at least) 2 listings... I was wondering if there was something to be seriously avoided in these rifles.

So the CRF vs. push-feed is not really a life-or-death issue for me. I am looking for my first "big bore" rifle... as a personal challenge to learn to shoot well, deal with the recoil, and maybe drop a hog or two. But I will admit, it just seems right for a 375H&H to be Mauser-based. However, the visual appeal between the Browning and the CZ is no comparison......

I like my A Bolt in .243 very much. It has given yeoman's service and is pretty accurate too. However, I would be concerned about the recoil in the gun. The "pad" on the stock leaves a lot to be desired, and the butts are pretty narrow.

David Culpepper, what is the recoil like on yours?

LWD

I'm an FFL dealer and I will tell you that I prefer A-Bolts over anything out there, except maybe Savage . Accuracy means everything to me and I look at a rifle strictly as a tool. My .338 Mag A-Bolt has never failed me and is super accurate. I love the short bolt lift. Don't be afraid of the A-Bolt. You can also get a Weatherby in .375 Mag. Personally, I'm not a big fan of the CZ. Most need work out of the box. I've never seen an A-Bolt that did !!! Push feed or CRF, all a personal choice. CRF has their own set of problems. I've seen plenty of them jammed up, probably more than push feeds.

quote:

David Culpepper, what is the recoil like on yours?

Mine does not have the factory recoil pad. It has been changed to a decelerator pad. Also, mine has a muzzle brake so the recoil is not bad. This past weekend I shot it 14 times from the bench rest with no real effect to my shoulder.

quote:

Originally posted by bowhuntrrl:
CRF has their own set of problems. I've seen plenty of them jammed up, probably more than push feeds.

As far as overall reliability CRF hands down. I've never seen a PH in Africa with a big bore that does not have CRF, enough said. For bowhunters like yourself the a-bolt is definitely a step in the right direction.

quote:

Originally posted by mrjulian_1970:
No one bid on the initial listing, and this is now the second listing for the same rifle. My question is, why is no one interested in this gun? What mistake would I be making by taking this one at $799?

Welcome to our forum.

Perhaps its not with the rifle, but the caliber? So many members here have been awed by the new 375 Ruger caliber that they wouldn't have the tried and true H&H version on a dare. It boils down to about a half inch of shorter case length.

BTW, my hunting partner bought the 375 Stalker version, left-handed and he likes it very much. But he's a Browing nut and wouldn't have it any other way.

I believe Browning is phasing out the A-bolt for a new improved version named the X-bolt.

quote:

Originally posted by dirklawyer:

quote:

Originally posted by bowhuntrrl:
CRF has their own set of problems. I've seen plenty of them jammed up, probably more than push feeds.

As far as overall reliability CRF hands down. I've never seen a PH in Africa with a big bore that does not have CRF, enough said. For bowhunters like yourself the a-bolt is definitely a step in the right direction.

Dirk,
On my one and only trip for DG, two of the three PH's had push feeds in .375 H&H (Remington and Winchester). The other had a .458 Lott in a Ruger.

Seems alot of the PH's shoot what they have.

If CRF is not a big deal with you, why don't you save yourself a few $$ and buy this Remington instead. Personally, I'd take a Rem. 700 over an A-Bolt any day. If you ever want to make any changes to the gun down the road, there are a whole lot more accessories (stocks, barrels, bolt shrouds etc.) available for the Rem. vs. the A-Bolt. On my last two PAC elephant hunts, my PH carried a push feed Model 70 in .458 Win.

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=107106624

Remington and I do not have a good history. I do not have a good reason for avoiding Remington other than a bad experience with a model 597 and a very non-accommodating customer service organization. I even avoid Remington ammo after the total lack of concern "Big Green" showed me with the problem I had. I would rather stake my life on a home-made musket than a Mod 700 after the way Remington dealt with my (simple) 22LR problem...

If all it comes down to is PF vs. CRF, then I think I can live with the A-Bolt II... if there is some serious quality/performance issue with the problem (or $800 is wy overpriced), then I will shop elsewhere.

quote:

Originally posted by dirklawyer:

quote:

Originally posted by bowhuntrrl:
CRF has their own set of problems. I've seen plenty of them jammed up, probably more than push feeds.

For bowhunters like yourself the a-bolt is definitely a step in the right direction.

Hate to say but I've probably been "gunning" long before yourself !!! And yes, I did see the smilies. Archery is new to me in the last 15 years but guns go back 48 years.

So we´re back playing "push me pull you" on the "problem" of CRF-PF.

I own, and have hunted Africa etc, with both and as long as I haven´t short stroked a gun I´ve never had a problem.

That said go with the rifle that you like the most. Buying something else is just foolish.

The Browning isn't the only push feed out there.....Weatherbys and Sakos and Remingtons and a lot of post 64 winchesters are as well.

Some Rugers are too even though they look like they have CRF extractors.

I've used push feed winchesters , Remingtons, Sakos for a good many hunts (not DG) with no trouble at all. Sometimes I think folks are splitting hairs.....but when it comes to DG maybe the hairs are worth splitting!

How about the Sauer 202; is it push or CRF?

quote:

Originally posted by onefunzr2:
How about the Sauer 202; is it push or CRF?

Push-feed, as are Blasers, and most Sakos.

George

While I prefer CRF guns, I have a Browning Stainless stalker in .375 H&H thats gotten the job done on about 100 African critters including my sons Buff. Its UGLY, ITS SHORT, ITS easy to carry and has lots of character scratches from being used. Oh Yes it shoots sub MOA with every load and bullet weight to the same POI. Never jamed or failed to feed unlike a few custom guns here from " famous" smiths.
My sage advise is buy it!-Rob

I've got a 7mm RM Browning A-Bolt II and have never had any issue with it period. It is my most accurate medium bore.

I also have a CZ550 Safari Magnum in .375 H&H. While it has not been blooded yet, it is accurate and I don't have any issues with it either.

True, a butter smooth, ultra reliable CRF is prefered for DG, but for heavy NA game, I wouldn't hesitate in buying a Browning A-Bolt II in .375.

Since you are soliciting opinions- luck you- I add that that thar 375 has a 26 in barrel, while my preference is a 23 inch barrel maximum. Easier to duck walk, leopard crawl or run through the bush with a shorter barrel. The Medallion finish is purdy but will get dinked up and scratched etc. Last purist issue is the the sling mount on the stock rather than the barrel..

But if you like it, buy it!

quote:

Originally posted by mrjulian_1970:
What is the fear out there over the A-Bolt?

No fear here.

I've got a Stainless Stalker 375 Weatherby that started life as an H&H. It's ugly to start with so there's no foul in dragging it throught he brush. At 8 1/2 lbs. scoped it's a joy to carry all day. It shoots VERY well for accuracy. I've had no failures to feed/extract, even with the straighter-walled Weatherby rounds. Recoil is vigorous but well managed by the stock design (I did add a Limbsaver pad and am pleased with the result) The trigger (with a bit of tweeking) is the best of any sporter I own. I have no plans to leave N. America. If you don't either.......I say go for it.

Here's mine in all her ugliness:


And after a hard day's work:


P.S. My smith has a Manson reamer just itching to clean another H&H out.

Nothing, as long as it's this one:

Browning FN Safari .375

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
Nothing, as long as it's this one:

Browning FN Safari .375

Yea, that is a really nice push-feed browning.

quote:

Originally posted by Paolo9,5x73:

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
I think the pushfeed is the problem on any DGR. I know some don't agree, but most that have hunted DG like a control feed rifle...

Why would "amateur" or sport hunter care?
Most of the guys here must think they're WDM Bell, Southerland, 'Pondoro',....

DEAR CONFUSED, I think if you have to ask that question,you need to stay out of the field where dangerous game is on the minue!


Let me ask you if you are one of those who thinks the PH will always be able to drag your nuts out of the fire, if your rifle fails to work as advertized, or is too small to get the job done? If the answer to that question is yes, then what happens when your rifle fails,either to work, or to stop something, and the PH is the one hit by a Buffalo, or lion? I guess that is just too bad for him, but it was his job to be back-up, not your's!

An "AMATEUR" is the person who needs a Proper working rifle design, more than anyone,because he is far more likely to seccumb to a case of BUFFALO fever and screw up, and jam his rifle, than a PH is. Because lives are at stake,not only his own, but those of the rest of the party, is why he should CARE!

That "AMATEUR" may be the only one left standing, with a loaded rifle in his hands! Ask Johan Calitz if a PH ever gets hit, leaving the client the only one left to shoot a buffalo off him. Just two years ago a long time Brown bear guide in Alaska, was severly mauled because of a PF rifle he was useing. He was charged at close range by a wounded Griz, and eventhough he as a very experienced bear guide, and had been useing the PF rifle for many years, he short stroked the rifle jamming two rounds in the loading port, rendering that rifle useless for anything but a boat paddle. He now uses a Ruger CRF rifle, and the sako is left at home!

I simply do not subscribe to the common thinking, that the PH should have a dependable defense rifle, and the client only an attack rifle. Both, are human, and suseptable to a case of nerves, so should be useing the most reliable rifle, that is chambered for suitable cartridge, that is avalible, if dangerous game is on the ticket!

What the hell is so illitest, about useing enough gun, or one that is as reliable as it can be made, simply because you are a sport hunter? The makers didn't go to PF because it was better, but because it was cheaper to make, improving thier bottom line, no other reason!

I'd not spend my money on a rifle that is chambered for a cartridge that is historicly used for Dangerous game, that is not set up properly for dangerous game! CRF is just one of those PROPERS, is not present in the Browning A-bolt rifle!

There are times in North America, where simply because you are not hunting dangerous game, he may be there anyway the same as the game you are hunting. Many deer, and elk hunters have been mauled, and some killed, by grizzlies because they didn't have enough rifle, and/or the wrong design to stop a big griz, when hunting deer or elk in Griz country!

As far as the people here thinking they are WDM Bell, Southerland, or Pondoro Taylor, all,with the exception of WDM Bell, are a fine examples of people who have tought "most of us" the reason for a proper rifle for dangerous game, and are good persons to try to imulate, IMO! There are many here that you would be wise to listen to as well!

WDM Bell is not one to judge the right rifle by for sure! A 7X57 chambered rifle is certainly not a proper rifle for anyone except a person with a death wish, when dealing with Buffalo, or Elephant! His rifle WAS CRF though!

I think the origenal poster, armed with both sides of the matter, should by what he wants! If he asked the question to simply have people tell him what he wanted to hear, he came to the wrong forum!