Fellow members,

Let me start by saying that I decided to post this video to (bust) the myth about feeding issues regarding the 375 RUM case. Prior to doing my conversion I did what any person would do, that is, research the feasibility of such conversion. I had a Win M70 in 375H&H which I wanted to convert to the Ultra for reasons that are mine. So I turned to this website and a few others to research if anyone had done such conversion. At the time, not many people had on a Win M70. I asked around and got mixed results. These are the problems many people were mentioning in different forums.

1- Ultra mag case has a rebated rim, not a good idea in a dangerous game rifle.

2- Feeding issues related to the rebated rim.

3- Bolt face needed to be open on the M70 bolt...???

and the list goes on...

So this video is for people out there like me who are thinking of doing such conversion. Its main purpose is to prove that is can be done, and done well.

First of, the rounds used in this video are all dummy rounds..!

The video shows me loading Barnes 300gr Flat nose banded solids as well as 270gr TSX. You can also see me single loading them and snapping the extractor over the rim. As you can see, no issues. The observation I made is that the weak link in the the M70 action is not the feeding as much as the ejection... The claw is not the culprit but its the ejector blade. Since we can vary the force of ejection, its possible for the round being ejected to fall back in the magazine window if one does not use enough force. Point I wanted to make is: this round will feed without a problem. And I also can make this round fail to eject if I want to.

To view video, click on picture bellow.



Maurice

That is awesome Enigma. I had wanted to convert one to 375 Ruger but would rather have the RUM if it's not a big ordeal.
Did you have to modify or change the magazine box?
I noticed you changed out the follower. Is it a Winchester RUM unit or someone else's?
Did it hold 3 in the magazine without a drop box?
Did you ream the chamber or replace the barrel?
I could not see any polishing or honing on the rails or feed ramp. If this is a rechamber was there not much to do to make it feed properley?

As you can see I am very interested in doing one of these conversions. I just cannot decide on whether to use a Safari Classic or Extreme Weather SS.
Thanks for your input and posting this video.

Hello Sid,

I'm glad you enjoyed the video

Let me answer your questions:

To complete the conversion I ordered a new barrel. I used a Pac-Nor 24 inches long, 6 grooves 1/10 twist. I ordered a RUM mag box from Winchester which they originally used on their M70 in 300 Ultra Mag. The follower is also a Winchester part for the Ultra Mag case. As far as the rails go, yes they had to be opened up. If I remember correctly the L/H one had to be milled more than the R/H side. The feed ramp was not touched much. I supplied my gunsmith with dummy rounds all seated with 300gr Barnes Banded solids. If I quote his words (she was a pain in the butt to get to feed right) lol... but he eventually got it down to feed slick. If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.

Maurice

Very nice.

I think your rifle is simply awesome!! I am dissapointed Winchester does not offer the RUM line anymore. It may be the only thing Remington has ever made that I want but I do not want it in a Model 700(very bad experience with that rifle). And to boot I see the 375 RUM brass for $1 apiece online when it's available. That is a steal for such a versatile case! Man I know you are enjoying that rifle!

I have been reading Michael458's threads and love his 500 MDM and hope to get one made next year. It is getting hard to find used RUM actions and may require converting a belted mag action like you did. Hell if I have my way I will get several M70's in RUM calibers (338,375 and 500 MDM on the wishlist).

The more I think about it you may have done more harm than good with that video. My daughter was expecting to get a car when she turns 16 next year but those funds might get redirected to some new rifles. Sorry honey I just try to make sensible purchases with good residual value.

Buy your daughter the car, Sid. A rifle won't come to visit you in an old folks home. Daughters are important...

I agree with jetdrvr as I would also get her the car, just get a used one and save a bit of money for the new project

quote:

Originally posted by jetdrvr:
Buy your daughter the car, Sid. A rifle won't come to visit you in an old folks home. Daughters are important...

What he said!

As to the 375RUM. I won one of the original rifles from Remington. It went back to them twice and also needed local gunsmith work to make it function correctly. There was a problem Remington refused to remedy however. Once the functioning was fixed, I was never able to fire rapid 3 round groups without the 3rd round going flyer. After lots of time, money and grief I realized it was the skinny tapered barrel that couldn't handle the heat from two rounds fired quickly without heating to the point of having an impact on the 3rd round. Told Remington but they didn't care. Not something I wanted in a DG rifle, so I sold it.

I do believe Remington started building them with heavier barrels.

I have no idea what type of barrel contour Remington uses. I chose a number 5 with a custom shank of 1.250 inches.

Don't worry guys she has already claimed my FJ Cruiser and that is what she is learning to drive in. I found out long ago that everything I thought I owned really belongs to my wife and kids. She did give me permission to buy a new truck next year as long as she can pick the color and drive it.

I'm not surprised that your rifle works fine- We figured out how to make rifle cartridges feed a long time ago!

In discussions on another forum, the .375 RUger's ability to feed as well as the .375 H&H's tapered case was questioned, so I did a similar video of feeding and ejecting flat nosed bullets from my .375 Ruger.

I always wonder why the heck people don't question the feeding capabilities of a 7mmRM, 300WM, 338 WM etc

You just pointed out the fallacy of the net and us human creatures...a whole lot of repeaters without the slightest bit of know how just blowing smoke...just like the three monkeys, hear no evil, see no evil and speak no evil except with the "no" removed.

Most of the ones who actually know "what the heck" are too busy working trying to survive to bother wasting time on the net...besides this knowledge is their bread and butter so WHY would the want to get diarrhea of the mouth and blab all that good stuff all over and basically cut their throats.

Remington has gone downhill sadly since the bean counters took over, but some of their products still do a good job at a fair price. I was looking at some very nice 870 and 11-87's today I wouldn't mind having...if I ever wear out my 30 year old 870 or High Standard.

Luck

Maurice
What happens when you operate the bolt really fast as if your life depended on it with the Solids ?
D'Arcy

Maurice

Excellent. Brian at SSK Industries has converted a bunch of Winchester M70s, all the rifles done in 300 RUM. We converted to 358 Ultra, 338 Ultra, 9.3 Ultra, but most have gone for the 500 MDM. With these there is never an issue of actually feeding, and with the 500 MDM just a slight issue of "Retaining", since we have now taken a 375 RUM out to .500 caliber, close the bolt on 3 rounds, the drag of the bolt likes to pull the front end up, therefore having a slight issue with retaining. Brian is very good at solving this issue and makes it go away completely.

But to take a Winchester M70 that was based on an H&H case, to an RUM case is a different matter. I don't doubt it will feed perfect, as you have shown, but how does it retain? Close the bolt, snatch hell out of it, will the cartridges retain with 3 down with the bolt closed?

We looked at converting rifles based on H&H cases, but retaining was such a possible issue we decided to forget it. I am rather demanding when it comes to feed and retaining issues, and will have nothing less than 100% even under the worst circumstances and abuse.

Michael

I have one that feeds and ejects both slowly and quickly, top round to bottom. Of course, Mark Bansner saw to that!

Why I asked the question is based on the calls we get asking us how we make the current Mod-70 "work" when we instal a Ultra Mag magazine and follower on our Big Bores. First we have to say we don't use this conversion. Then it turns out the caller has is acquired and installed said combo on his 486 Magnum and it does not work seamlessly and he wants to know why. Non of the callers are Gunsmiths, they're just average guys that read these forums and are trying to build their dream gun. They reads these treads and try to pick out the best data they can and then act on what we the posters say works "perfect". I have no doubt that certain combinations of parts such as action variations, bullets and case diameters work with out a hitch on many Mod-70's. If you have a few of these rifles count your blessings and will them to your kids.

Before the New Haven plant caved in the Mod-70 went through a number of changes. The earlier G extractor Mod-70 bullet ramps were smaller in width and U shaped. Winchester ran into many feeding issues when they got into making the 416 Rem 458 Lott and 470 Capstick in the custom shop and went to what they eventually called a "Ships Hold" shaped bullet ramp to address these problems. I know this for a fact as they call us to work with them and the David Miller Co. to solve this problem. This ships Hold shape was then adopted for most the production runs, I think. Rail width dimensions and notches cut into the rails to allow the short-Mags to feed more reliably began to show up. No doubt the windowed ultra mag boxes were made to address those feeding issues the factory ran into as the complaints came in. If a guy was to secure a Mod-70 that came out of the factory as an original ultra mag perhaps his plans to make a 404, a Lott or the 375 Ultra might never develop any feeding problems.

However if a guy retro fits an Ultra Mag Box and follower he found on line to his Factory Production 30-06 action, that has earlier U shaped bullet ramp and has much narrower rail width on that action then that of a 375 or a factory 416 for that matter. Then we toss in different bolt stops, magazine springs, extractors and other after market suggestions that get added to the new conversion it's a complete surprise to the owner when the "up-grade" chokes. Even with the RUM box the change-over on a Factory long mag (i.e. 300 Wtby, 7mm STW, etc) might not be a tidy as the net allows seems to portray.

We have found that any solid, particularly a Flat Nose solid when driven fast will hit the bullet ramp at a lower approuch angle on the bullet ramp and will direct, bounce and or ricochet off the bullet ramp and dive right into the center of extractor cut on a Mod-70 when the bolt is really worked hard on many Factory Model 70's. A lead soft point will tend to cushion the blow to a degree but will often times act the same when DRIVEN HARD. This is not at all a slam at Flat Nose Solids as we use them all the time up to and including 45 calibers to insure our rifles feed as designed. If a rifle will feed a Flat Nose solid reliably when driven hard it will feed anything.

I don't dispute anything the Maurice has posted, not one iota, I watched the clip but then wondered what would happen to the same rifle when driven hard ?thats all I question. If getting a Mod-70 that began life as a Ultra Magnum wasn't a problem then I guess this would not ever become a subject in any forum. However many people are trying to find and retro fit these magazines, bits & pieces thinking that once purchased that they are out of the woods and they're rifle s will even be able to feed empties.

I'm saying based on calls to our shop this is hardly the case.

quote:

This is not at all a slam at Flat Nose Solids as we use them all the time up to and including 45 calibers to insure our rifles feed as designed. If a rifle will feed a Flat Nose solid reliably when driven hard it will feed anything.

The quote on the Barnes site seems to indicate your shop prefers non-flat point solids. The quote is just vague enough for deniability but they are using it to push their new banded round-nose solids. Interesting that reality seems to be counter to what is implied by Barnes.

I wish to start by thanking everyone who followed this thread so far and contributed with questions and advice. I will try to do a (torture test) and film it to see what happens. Mr Echols suggested that I try slamming solids in the chamber at full speed and see what happens. Michael also suggested a shakeup of the gun to see how well the rounds hold in the magazine box. I will do my best to simulate rough field conditions but one can only do so much filming in his basement... I have to run out of the house for an hour or so but I will shoot the video and post it tonight when I get back.

Regards,

Maurice

This is going to change the slant of this thread but what the hell. About 16 months ago I contacted Randy Brooks at Barnes to ask him if he would consider making me a limited run of 525gr Round Nose Solids for a couple of clients of mine. Both rifles requiring these re-designed bullets were 505 Gibbs and made on H&W magnum Mauser actions. The Barnes Flat Nose Banded solids I used at that time would not reliably feed with these actions as the Flat Meplat hung under the leading lip of the bullet ramp by about 20% or so. As the diameter of the case dictated where the bullet nose was positioned those bullets would not come high enough into the feed well to place the 6 O Clock position of that flat Meplat above the the lower lip of the bullet ramp. No amount of machine work to the feed well would change this situation. I am not the first riflemaker to run into this situation with this type of action, case diameter, caliber and ogive design.

Barnes being a GREAT company looked at my request and said if I would make up few examples of what I wanted in regards to the Ogive design and ordered a 1000 or so bullets they would be happy to comply with my request. Now that is customer service period !!!!!!!!!!!

I did and they did and the result was a 525gr bullet that had a conventional round nose ogive like their older Super Solid design that feed flawlessly, is very accurate, shoots to the same point of impact as the 525gr TSX and eliminated the air space in the Gibbs case with faster burning powders such as R-15. Their willingness to do so made 3 people very happy. They did not have to do so.

Randy called me back months later and asked me what I though of them making up a similar design for all the other calibers as they got many complaints from shooters about the feeding issues with the Banded Solid ? I said "if you offered both you might make everyone happy but that your call not mine I'm a rifle maker not a Bullet maker". We use the Barnes Banded Flat Nose Solids a lot as for test loads, a go to bullet for feeding issues and for hunting load development for our clients. The 375, 416, 404, 458 Calibers offer us no feeding issues we can't overcome with a little effort. The 505 diameter was an exception.

We asked Barnes to help us out of a jam for a limited run of 505 diameter solids and they did. The flack created by their move to reintroduce a round nose solid for all their big calibers has created all sorts of controversy, some of the Media spin they did not handle very well I'll admit. While the modern flat nose design has proven all sorts of improvements in the penetration for many calibers the fact still remains that not all the rifles floating around the world will feed a Flat Nose Meplat reliably. Are we to scrap all the Rigby, H&H or Mod-70'S that worked fine with round nose solids because they won't feed a flat nose? Do all the hard working PH's have to retire their current working rifles if all the bullets produced become Flat Nosed ? The round nose has worked quite well for a long time, feed in most heavy working rifles and get the job done. Is there a better looking bullet in the future ? it damn sure looks like it and it's blunt on the front.

But if you can't get one to feed in your particular rifle better & straighter penetration is useless if you can't chamber it.

I have made other request with both Swift and Woodleigh in the past to change the cannelure position on their 500gr 45 Caliber softs and solids so we could crimp their bullets to allow for a different OAL cartridge length to fit our magazine lengths to eliminate the bullet nose from getting battered under recoil. Both Swift and Woodleigh gladly complied with these request as we ordered enough bullets to justify the request. Like Barnes these companies were willing to work with the little guy.

Be damn thankful we have guys experimenting in their basements and garages coming up with new bullets, sights, stocks etc as an industry it eventually helps us all. As shooters and hunters we have never had it so good.

375 RUM, here I come...

thanks, more than you know, for the work involved to make this viable.

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by DArcy_Echols_Co:
This is going to change the slant of this thread but what the hell. About 16 months ago I contacted Randy Brooks at Barnes to ask him if he would consider making me a limited run of 525gr Round Nose Solids for a couple of clients of mine. Both rifles requiring these re-designed bullets were 505 Gibbs and made on H&W magnum Mauser actions. The Barnes Flat Nose Banded solids I used at that time would not reliably feed with these actions as the Flat Meplat hung under the leading lip of the bullet ramp by about 20% or so. As the diameter of the case dictated where the bullet nose was positioned those bullets would not come high enough into the feed well to place the 6 O Clock position of that flat Meplat above the the lower lip of the bullet ramp. No amount of machine work to the feed well would change this situation. I am not the first riflemaker to run into this situation with this type of action, case diameter, caliber and ogive design.

Barnes being a GREAT company looked at my request and said if I would make up few examples of what I wanted in regards to the Ogive design and ordered a 1000 or so bullets they would be happy to comply with my request. Now that is customer service period !!!!!!!!!!!

I did and they did and the result was a 525gr bullet that had a conventional round nose ogive like their older Super Solid design that feed flawlessly, is very accurate, shoots to the same point of impact as the 525gr TSX and eliminated the air space in the Gibbs case with faster burning powders such as R-15. Their willingness to do so made 3 people very happy. They did not have to do so.

Randy called me back months later and asked me what I though of them making up a similar design for all the other calibers as they got many complaints from shooters about the feeding issues with the Banded Solid ? I said "if you offered both you might make everyone happy but that your call not mine I'm a rifle maker not a Bullet maker". We use the Barnes Banded Flat Nose Solids a lot as for test loads, a go to bullet for feeding issues and for hunting load development for our clients. The 375, 416, 404, 458 Calibers offer us no feeding issues we can't overcome with a little effort. The 505 diameter was an exception.

We asked Barnes to help us out of a jam for a limited run of 505 diameter solids and they did. The flack created by their move to reintroduce a round nose solid for all their big calibers has created all sorts of controversy, some of the Media spin they did not handle very well I'll admit. While the modern flat nose design has proven all sorts of improvements in the penetration for many calibers the fact still remains that not all the rifles floating around the world will feed a Flat Nose Meplat reliably. Are we to scrap all the Rigby, H&H or Mod-70'S that worked fine with round nose solids because they won't feed a flat nose? Do all the hard working PH's have to retire their current working rifles if all the bullets produced become Flat Nosed ? The round nose has worked quite well for a long time, feed in most heavy working rifles and get the job done. Is there a better looking bullet in the future ? it damn sure looks like it and it's blunt on the front.

But if you can't get one to feed in your particular rifle better & straighter penetration is useless if you can't chamber it.

I have made other request with both Swift and Woodleigh in the past to change the cannelure position on their 500gr 45 Caliber softs and solids so we could crimp their bullets to allow for a different OAL cartridge length to fit our magazine lengths to eliminate the bullet nose from getting battered under recoil. Both Swift and Woodleigh gladly complied with these request as we ordered enough bullets to justify the request. Like Barnes these companies were willing to work with the little guy.

Be damn thankful we have guys experimenting in their basements and garages coming up with new bullets, sights, stocks etc as an industry it eventually helps us all. As shooters and hunters we have never had it so good.

A little feeding issue with FN bullets !

I wish to emphasize that this thread was started to explain what had been done to bring this project to completion. I did not mean any disrespect to any of the great rifle builders and bullet makers out there. I feel kind of honored to have such legends as Mr Echols and Mr McCourry participate to this thread and share their ideas. This brings out the best of what the internet has to offer.

Maurice

P.S. Once I'm done with bbq'ing my shrimps, the tripod and camera will start filming the torture test

Phil was nice enough to post the pic of the H&W actions underside and the Barnes Banded Flat Nose Solid as it sits in the feed well. Due to the Gibbs case diameter there is no way that Meplat will clear the feed ramps lower lip. Wishing it will work is not going to help. This led to me asking Barnes to make up a run of Old Style Ogives. Problem solved.

Something came up at the last minute which will prevent me from making that video tonight. I should be able to do it when I get back in 3 days.

This is a good thread. I had often thot years ago that the reason many African P.Hs wanted clients to bring lots of solids and use them on Buffalo was 1 lack of integrity of the expanding bullets. And the unreliable feeding. The 510 gr Winchester. 458. bullet with the Big blue nose could hang up like a kinky old chocker...
I was very happy to see the first X bullets were spitzer shaped. . Great feeding and great penitration.

Enigma; I really appreciate all your labor with this rifle. I hope you get to use it in the fast and furious.!!

D'Arcy,

Thanks very much for your informative post. Knowing the 'rest of the story' puts a very different light on the situation. I think when things like that happen, seemingly out of the blue, it makes people very curious and all kinds of conclusions are drawn even in the face of any sort of explanation. Had Barnes simply introduced the banded round-nose solids alongside (advertised and stocked in stores and in the Vor-Tex ammo) without trying to spin away the performance gains of the flat meplat solids, they could have avoided the firestorm.


I don't think you changed the slant of the post, just made it all the much better; after all, it relates directly to feeding issues with flat-nosed solids.

Looking forward to Enigma's new video.

DArcy

quote:

If a guy was to secure a Mod-70 that came out of the factory as an original ultra mag perhaps his plans to make a 404, a Lott or the 375 Ultra might never develop any feeding problems.

SSK Industries builds the entire B&M and MDM Series rifles, all of course Winchester M70s. I personally not qualified to change parts, much less do any sort of work on a rifle. That is why we shooters/hunters have people like you! As a shooter/hunter, cartridge developer, and student of terminal ballistics, I like to make things simple as possible, simple to me means that I stand a better chance of getting things to work proper. My B&M series, 9.3-50 B&M are based on a cut and trimmed RUM case to 2.240-2.250 inches, designed for control feed WSM actions. Winchester has already done most of the work here, and other than some retaining issues in .458 to .500 then there is little to do in the area of feed and function. Retaining issues are minor and Brian at SSK can sort that out in quick order.

The 500 MDM is based on a 2.8 inch RUM case, blown out to .500 caliber. .500--Not your standard .510, that most folks refer to as "500". We use nothing but the Winchester M70s that were built on the 300 RUM. Again, fairly easy conversion, with some retaining issues, but again fairly easy to sort out.

I am rather demanding in the arena of feed and function. I absolutely give the rifles a very hard time, slamming the bolt back and forth with force. It must feed, it must retain, and it must function, or it does not go out, end of story. By out, I mean to the field for whatever dangerous game happens to be on the ticket, and most of the time, multiples of that.

One of the reasons I looked at this thread to begin with was the fact that Enigma seems to have taken a h&h based rifle, and turned it into a RUM based rifle. Which we decided was going to be too much of an issue, and with no guarantees that it would retain once finished, especially under the conditions that I demand. So, we decided to stay with the old Win M70s based on the RUM action. At least, until they all disappear!!! Which was my concern!

I feed my Winchesters nothing but Flat Nose Solids, used to be Barnes Banded, but no more. The solids we use are BBW#13s with a 67% meplat of caliber, feeds slick as a hot knife going through butter, most of the time, can't even feel it chamber! The other solid I use is a North Fork FPS, designed for .500 caliber and .474 caliber. The first prototypes we worked with had a 70% meplat of caliber, and these were in fact too large for even the Winchester M70, they would come to a stop. We reduced the meplat down to 68%, and they feed like the BBW#13s. Now, FYI--65% meplat of caliber is the bottom threshold for terminal stability, not being dependent upon OTHER factors such as Twist Rate, Velocity. The Barnes Banded, MOST, have a 65% meplat of caliber, with the exception of the AWFUL 9.3 caliber banded, which is below 50% as I recall, and designed to feed through CHEAP ass rifles! This bullet is horribly unstable during terminal penetration.

quote:

This is not at all a slam at Flat Nose Solids as we use them all the time up to and including 45 calibers to insure our rifles feed as designed. If a rifle will feed a Flat Nose solid reliably when driven hard it will feed anything.

You are 100% spot on, and this is what is required of a real Dangerous Game Rifle.

quote:

If getting a Mod-70 that began life as a Ultra Magnum wasn't a problem then I guess this would not ever become a subject in any forum. However many people are trying to find and retro fit these magazines, bits & pieces thinking that once purchased that they are out of the woods and they're rifle s will even be able to feed empties .

And this was exactly what we were investigating a couple of years ago or so. Can we figure out a way to get those rifles to "Shoot" the empties?



Much appreciation for shedding some light on the "Barnes Banded vs RN" issue.

quote:

The flack created by their move to reintroduce a round nose solid for all their big calibers has created all sorts of controversy, some of the Media spin they did not handle very well I'll admit

I tell you what their "Media Spin" was, it was a slap in the face and insulting to people who know better. Not only that, but it made Barnes look like a bunch of babbling idiots! They are the very ones when introducing the Barnes Banded Solid touted superior performance, straight line dependable, deeper, penetration to begin with, and they were CORRECT! Now that they wish to Cater to those few complaints of shooters with cheap ass rifles, and slam the performance of their own designs to accomplish this goal, what does that make them look like? It was and is a pure insult to shooters and hunters, their "Media Spin".

Had Barnes just come out and stated simply that they are going to bring back a RN Solid for Cheap Ass rifles that won't feed, and for folks that were too cheap to send them to DArcy, then everyone would have excepted that without issue, even myself. But they did not do that did they? They chose quite another route, a very foolish one in my opinion, but that is their business, not mine. Honesty is normally the best route. They did not make you look so good either in the eyes of those who know better!

quote:

While the modern flat nose design has proven all sorts of improvements in the penetration for many calibers the fact still remains that not all the rifles floating around the world will feed a Flat Nose Meplat reliably. Are we to scrap all the Rigby, H&H or Mod-70'S that worked fine with round nose solids because they won't feed a flat nose?

Fact of the matter is, that many of those rifles you mention will never see field use, some will of course, and yes, lot's of rifles are in the field that will not feed a FN Solid, and many of those cannot get to DArcy, or another fine gunsmith that might can make them feed. So yes, in that perspective, then by all means one must do what they have to do. I disagree in your statement that the RN has worked "Quite Well" for a long time, I could only go so far as to say, "It has worked in the Past", but not to the point of "Quite Well", there are many many cases in which it has been proven it did not work quite well, but just the opposite.

Do we scrap rifles that don't feed the FN? Most would not of course, I would not either, but I would not go to the field with one either! I for one, will not sacrifice performance whether it be the "Rifle", the Cartridge, and most importantly The "BULLET". You see, DArcy, when it comes down to it, the "BUllet" does all the work, all the heavy lifting. Fine expensive rifles are nice, big impressive performance cartridges, well they are impressive, but none of them are worth a damn in the field without proper bullet performance. For Dangerous Game hunting, one needs a rifle that will work 110% of the time, one needs a cartridge that is capable of running big bullets at velocities conducive to taking Dangerous Game, but above all, one needs a bullet that will do it's job without "Compromise". I am not willing personally to compromise any of this equation, Rifle, Cartridge, and most certainly not the bullet!

By solving one problem, you sometimes creates others.

Your reputation as a Gun Maker, Gunsmith is without question, Excellent. It is a privilege and pleasure for all of us to have your participation in these discussions, and much appreciated.

Thanks!

Michael

I'm back home folks. I apologize in advance for taking so long to post the second set of videos. I will be uploading the videos this afternoon.

Sorry for taking so long submitting the new set of videos... Anyways, here they are as requested. The first one shows me huffing and puffing trying to see how well the lips hold the rounds in the magazine. There is only so much I can do in my basement and dragging my gun behind my pickup was not an option The second video shows me feeding the gun as fast as I could as hard as I could. To view the videos, click on the images bellow.

Maurice

Video number 1: The shake down...

Video number 2: The feeding

Maurice I am impressed !!!!!! It would appear the combo of parts you have works like a charm.
Excellent good job well done !!!!!

Well thank you Mr. Echols but in all honesty the guy to thank is my gunsmith who did the work. His name is Lyle Linkaitis and is from Selkirk Manitoba. He comes on this forum once in a while and I'm sure he will be delighted to see that some of the best gunsmiths in the world appreciate his work.

Maurice

I think Lyle is gonna get a few calls this week...

Very nice job and enjoy your new RUM!

Maurice
Buy Lyle an adult beverage on us. Go team !

Yes, that covers it very well.
The first video showed a flat-nose solid coming out of the bottom of the magazine (first-loaded position) with considerable gusto.
Thus all the permutations and positions of pointy and FN bullets seems to have been covered.
Cheers to Lyle and Maurice

Whatever works, is the way it goes, even for The Masters.

RIP,

What was your M70 chambered into before converting it to a 395 tatunka... pardon the spelling. Any feeding issues with it?

Maurice

Maurice,
The .395 Tatanka, was originally on a Dakota M76 African, but no more.
That Dakota is now a "404 RIP" aka "404/.416 Rigby Improved Plus."
My two .395 Tatankas are now: CZ 550 Magnum and Ruger No.1.

I have a couple of .375 RUM rifles:
a CZ 550 Magnum 5-shooter that feeds better after it had a Dakota M76 follower and spring installed.
Also a Remington M700 LSS: an extremely accurate pushfeeder

The three M70 Winchester RUMs that I have had converted from 300 RUM chambering with great success in feeding:

1. 404 Jeffery
2. .416 Dakota
and
3. 49-10 aka "49-bore/.500-cal/.338 Lapua Magnum of 2010" aka 12.7 x 68 mm Tornado.

Mr. Echols deferred to Rusty McGee on getting the 49-10 to feed from the M70.
It required the windowed RUM box with a Sunny Hill drop floor plate, to hold 3 down and one up,
and even feeds FN solids when worked fast or slow.

Mr. Echols points out an important feature of the M70 RUM rifle: remodeled feed ramp.

"Before the New Haven plant caved in the Mod-70 went through a number of changes. The earlier G extractor Mod-70 bullet ramps were smaller in width and U shaped. Winchester ran into many feeding issues when they got into making the 416 Rem 458 Lott and 470 Capstick in the custom shop and went to what they eventually called a "Ships Hold" shaped bullet ramp to address these problems. I know this for a fact as they call us to work with them and the David Miller Co. to solve this problem. This ships Hold shape was then adopted for most the production runs, I think. Rail width dimensions and notches cut into the rails to allow the short-Mags to feed more reliably began to show up. No doubt the windowed ultra mag boxes were made to address those feeding issues the factory ran into as the complaints came in. If a guy was to secure a Mod-70 that came out of the factory as an original ultra mag perhaps his plans to make a 404, a Lott or the 375 Ultra might never develop any feeding problems."

Thank you RIP for the detailed post. I enjoyed it!

Maurice

Maurice,
Thank you!
Not too many people interested in my wildcats, and that is cool.
We do have a war hero professor member of the .395 Family, a "thinking man" smart enough for membership in this exclusive club.

Highjack:
I do have a Model 70 Winchester chambered for a .395.
.395 H&H.
Pre-64 M70 action.
Brown Precision stock.
McGowen stainless barrel.
Exclusive barrel maker of .395: McGowen

This is a one-of-a-kind rifle, very special.

The Pre-64 M70 box is "Mauser Cosine Perfect" for the .375 H&H, and thus also for the .395/.375 H&H, a simple neck-up.

Holds 4 down in the box, and one in the chamber, in the slim, flat-bellied old girl.
Feeds perfectly, even FN solids like shown, fast or slow.

One rifle to grow old with, and hunt anything with, and want nothing more: Gentle on the shoulder, and lethal at the muzzle.
With 240 to 330-grain monometals, and even a 410-grain Cast Boolitt with gas check at 2200 fps (LBT custom mould, thanks to Veral.)
CEB Raptors some day?

























There is an off-the-shelf mould from NEI that makes .396"/250-grain FN Gas Checked lead boolitts.
That is my squirrel bullet.
I assume it was designed to feed the few existing 400 Nitro For black Powder 3" rifles out there.
Thanks to whomever got that one started.
A once obsolete caliber is still hanging on.
Here is a pic of the loaded 250-grain lead and the 410 grain lead gas-checked boolitts.
They are 0.918" and 1.357" long respectively:

I have to say RIP, that is one sexy looking wildcat! Miaowww lol

quote:

Originally posted by Enigma:
I have to say RIP, that is one sexy looking wildcat! Miaowww lol

Maurice,
Yes, it's a wildcat, not a wildpussy!!!

You might have high I.Q. if ... you like a .395 wildcat.
This is the antithesis of Jeff Foxworthy's routine.

Pick the right bullet and get more velocity, weight and caliber,
or any variation on that triad you like,
with all the Mauser-Cosine-Perfect-Box-and-Slick-Tapered-Feeding benefits of the .375 H&H.
The .395 H&H will deliver more "whomp" than a .375 H&H.
Simple "Bore Law."

Just enough to relieve the boredom that those of high I.Q. are prone to.
So what if you have to use custom-made bullets, or make your own?
That really makes things interesting ... but so does a .375 RUM in an M70 Winchester Classic, that feeds and functions perfectly.
Highjack over