Wondering if anyone is aware of an example or even a refernce about the use of an underhammer big-bore percussion rifle in Africa in the 19th century. I know this was a rather unusual action in the USA at the time, and have no idea if it was familiar to European or colonial shooters in the 1800s. I ask because I have a .69 barrel with 1:100 Forsythe-style twist on order, and would love to see contruction details on a period piece. This sort of rifle is of course produced currently as the Pacific Zephyr, and while that rifle is very elegantly made, I don't know whether it follows any sort of earlier design. I ask on this board, as I hate to go to the muzzleloading forum and read about -- GAAAK! -- in-lines.

Not sure. But I'd like to "think" they were. At least a handful.
Because I'm thinking of building a 4-bore on that type of lock.
It's seems a lot easier to do with huge barrels like this. At least that's what I think.
I think I saw someones 2-bore on here somewhere.
Looked dang good.
I gonna keep mine a smoothbore, and just call it good. More of a wall-hanger than anything.
If I need to use anything in that category, I'll take my RSM .458 Lott.
Cheer's!

I was just thinking of the "buggy rifle" type.
Not sure if this is what you mean.

I just looked up their website and their 8 bore African Zephyr looks like a great place to start! I think that underhammer rifles were pretty unusual everywhere except that they seemed relatively popular for bench rest rifles. In the US, H&A sold underhammer rifle models but they did not have the obvious impact of the sidehammer guns in popular use. If you search gunsamerica for underhammer you should get a hit to Bruce ..... that sells underhammer rifle kits. My frankenrifle 4 bore is built on one of his parts kits and it has been fun to play with but it will never win a beauty contest.

Mike, I thought I had heard the Bruce of Blue Grouse is out of the business, but perhaps I am wrong. I recently obtained from Muzzleloader Builders Supply an underhammer parts kit that is very stout, with upper and lower tangs, and that will accommodate a 1.3-inch O.D. barrel. This lock is also sold by the Log Cabin Shop. It makes a nice alternative to the H&A inspired locks.

my 2 bore was a under hammer and it was my gun that you saw.

My 8 bore is made by them and is the same design as yours,, if you can do a search of the "Black Powder Mag", there have been a couple of articles in it ,,the design has been around and used longer then even some of the side hammer guns.

quote:

Originally posted by 700 nitro:
my 2 bore was a under hammer and it was my gun that you saw.

Can you post pictures of it again? Would love to see it.

i dont have any pics of the rifle any more i sold quite some time ago.....

if you want i can put you in contact with the current owner....

Never seen an under hammer in Africa (only ever seen a photo of one in the USA)

NB- at least 80% of the big bore muzle loaders used in Africa were flint locks right up till about 1900.

Percussion was never particularly popular, except as a sportsmans night use rifle!

Also, I have never seen or fired an original pre 1900 rifle bigger than 6 bore. Obviously a few like Samuel Bakers "Baby" were made but they were the exception. Rifles were slow to load, and the rifling increased felt recoil and reduced penetration. Flint locks were the quickest to reload if used Boer style and hunters going after elephant, rhino or hippo mostly prefered one.

That makes perfect sense.
I can only imagine fumbling with a percussion cap in that situation.
Whereas one just primed the pan of a flintlock rather easily, and let go with it.
This must have worked better on horseback.
I'm sure some of you have read Baker's accounts, and one he mentioned is the use of the smoothbore with high loads for penetration.
Hey-I guess the smoothbore I'm going to make will not be such an outcast after all. I've never given it that much thought to be honest.
Will work well wingshooting too, although it's against the law for waterfowl-I think. Or maybe that is just for the cartridge guns.
Trust me, I'll play safe, and not use it on any waterfowl, just to be SURE.
Next time I meet the warden I'll ask him.

Enjoy that Zephyr, but a word of caution. I hate to admit this, but that "trigger guard" doesnt serve that purpose. Holding the rifle by the barrel, I set the rifle on the top of my shoulder while walking back. The hammer fell. Luckily the cap didnt go off. Hearing that hammer fall was a sound I wouldnt want to hear again.

Enjoy the rifle, but do take caution with that novel firing mechanism.

Walksfar- Used correctly, you don't prime a flintlock. Close pan and half cock. Pour powder down the barrel, drop in ball, bank butt on ground which seats ball and drives some powder through the flash hole into the pan, cock as you lift the gun and fire.

You need a generous flash hole but if you look at any original brown bess or big bore hunting flintlock they have massive flash holes compared to modern replicas.

The Boers at blood river managed a higher rate of fire with their flintlocks than the brittish regulars could manage 40 years later at Rorkes drift or Islandwand with their breech loading martini's.

Also, most people used the big bore guns with heavy buck shot for everything smalleer than buffalo. A pile of .45-.54 balls were tied in a short section of sheep or impala intestine. When dropped down the barrel this would easily slide past fowling and yet seat nicely. Worked on Zulus and eland!

Ganyana: I like your description of a Boer buckshot load, and should very much hate to be on the receiving end of it. I have been in touch with Mr. Craig Klintworth of Mkonto Manufacturing in suburban Johannesburg, who manufactures an underhammer, and he said he was unfamiliar with any source confirming the use of this action type in 19th century Africa.