With regard to stock crossbolts and barrel-mounted recoil lugs...

Do McMillan fiberglass stocks or do laminated-wood stocks on big bore rifles need them ?

Hammer

McMillan stocks do not need either.

I'll defer to someone who knows about the laminated stock issue.

lawndart

There was a thread a year ago that suggested laminates are more prone to splitting than a proper piece of solid walnut. Those posting said that crossbolts were a must. I am finishing a 505 Gibbs in a laminate stock and I am taking their word for it.

I have had a 416 Wby in a McMillan stock and that was no problem. The rifle was shot a lot because of using bag of lead shot behind the rifle. This was a stock from several years ago when they made the stocks with the wood grain like appearance.

I am not sure about laminated stocks. My only experience with them is twp of the stocks that come on those cream and gray Rem 700 Stainless. Both stocks are quite soft in terms of compression from the floor plate but seem very hard in lengthwise compression.

On an action like a Rem 700 or M70 and especially the Rem 700 I think would be happy with a 458 Lott and no barrel recoil lug. Bit I might inless a bolt into the middle of the from bedding secion and behind the magazine.

On a Mauser I think I would want a barrel lug because of their very small recoil action lug and also the very small amount of stock material behind the recoil lug. Perhaps even a cross bolt of the type where the action recoil lug rests directly against the cross bolt so as to effectively increase the size of the action lug.

If other laminated stock are like the Rem 700s, that is, soft on vertical compression, then with a Mauser I would want a pillar in the stock for the tang to be bedded on because of the extremely small bedding area of the Mauser tang.

Mike

I had a .35 Whelen split a laminated stock. It had been bedded with acra-glas gel behind the recoil lug and under the rear tang. The rear of the rear tang had been clearanced so as to not touch the wood. The bottom metal had been bedded and the guard screws were installed so as to not touch the wood. The mag box didn't touch the wood. It split anyway. I repaired it with re-bedding internal cross bolts behind the lug and behind the mag box.

Let's remember that laminated stocks are made from birch and glue and that the grain is lineal. They are very strong in bending(like plywood) and probably strong in compression but the effect of recoil is to spread the sides of the stock on either side of the mag box where the wood is thinest. I believe this will create splitting.

At any rate, I will never do another laminated stock that isn't cross-bolted - either internal or external.

The only break I have hade in a wooden stock was in a new laminated stock with heavy bullets in a 35 Whelen-Ackley. The break started in one of the lamination cuts.

Upon reflection, I doubt laminates are significantly better than a good glassed in conventional wooden stock, especially if the barrel is free floated.

Crossbolts may have limited value in a a synthetic stocky adding a small amount of weight to the center of the stock and improving balance in a gun with a light stock. I think very light synthetics leave a gun top heavy with a scope mounted. This doesn't feel right to me when I'm handling the gun.

Paul

Splits are caused by sloppy bedding not so much material..and glas bedded rifles like any other rifle can be sloppy when not done properly....

Also it depends on caliber and a 35 Whelen or even a .375 should not split a laminate or wood stock...

I think a 458 on up needs cross bolts, probably glass bedding, and a second recoil lug 5"s in front of the front action ring. I even do this on a 416 Rem. and 375 get crossbolts and maybe glass . These are hunting guns to be used in remote areas, so glass, crossbolts and second recoil lugs should be viewed as insurance..but I would reserve the second recoil lug to say a 416 and up, or maybe a 458 and up....

Atkinson,

Thanks for the reply.

Just so I am clear on your reply...

Do the crossbolts and second recoil lug apply to McMillan fiberglass stocks which they have purposely built for a dangerous game rifle, say a 460 Wby size caliber ?

Or do these recommendations apply only to the laminated-wood or solid wood rifles ?

The reason I follow up is that the McMillan fiberglass stock does not have a place prepared for the stock crossbolts. Have been told that cutting into the fiberglass stock will weaken it.

Again, thanks for the reply.

Hammer

YOu will likely weaken a glass stock if you start cutting through the laters of material. Leave the bolts to the wood and laminates

I've used a Mcmillan stock on a 585 NYATI without crossbolts but did include a barrel mounted recoil lug. It worked beautifully. I don't use laminates at all on big kickers. I know what will happen.-Rob

For your fiberglass stock I would not cross bolt it but I would use a second recoil lug for any caliber over 458 Win....

With a Laminate I would use two cross bolts, second recoil lug, full length glass bedding..I have never had a problem with Laminate and I had one on my 505 Gibbs for many years...Laminate needs to be finished a sealed just like a wood stock...

I stil prefer a piece of quarter sawn turkish, regardless of the caliber..Two crossbolts and the recoil lug and tang steel bedded, with releif at the tang of .020 and the rest carefully bedded..

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
I've used a Mcmillan stock on a 585 NYATI without crossbolts but did include a barrel mounted recoil lug. It worked beautifully. I don't use laminates at all on big kickers. I know what will happen.-Rob

I agree with that. At the time I put together the .470 Mbogo on a BBK02, a laminate was handy, so I used it. But it has crossbolts (4) barrel lug (1), pillars (2), and axial grip rod (1).

Serengetti's walnut laminates (formerly Acrabond) may be the exception, but laminates will split and compress more easily than walnut.

The laminates are only as good as the veneers that they are made of, and it is usually not Turkish walnut! The adhesives holding the laminate together do not penetrate throughout the grain. No way!

My 500A2 is in a McMillan with a barrel lug bedded there, and I fear no evil.

In particular, I have found the Remington factory laminate stocks to be soft, and they compress with normal tightening of the action screws. They might be more humidity and time stable than real wood, but so what , if they are going to crack or split so easily. Cheap laminates are best on small bores.

Give me walnut, or give me synthetic.

I agree, all laminates are not equal just like all composite stocks are not equal, like most things you get about what you pay for...

I have only used Brockmans laminates and they won't split if I bed them or if Jim beds them..Most of my Laminated stocks have been done by the late Mel Smart and were of plain but very high quality Turkish Walnut...I like the color better and they don't look plywoody..