Has anyone used their 404 for elephant? I've fallen in love with the cartridge but worry if there is enough hosepower for a big Botswana bull. I have bigger guns available but this 404 just appeals to me. Anyone ever shot an elephant with one? When you start talking 5 figure trophy fees a lost animal can be quite traumatic!

The .404 Jeffery is plenty of gun for elephant. .404s were at one time 'standard issue' to game rangers, if I remember correctly.

George

A good friend of mine shot a Bull with his 404. It was a head shot at about eight meters, but still missed the brain with no sign of a hit, as it turned to run the PH hit it in the head with a 458 solid but still it ran but luckly on a slight angle allowing Jaimie to put another 404 solid under the arm which stoped the Bull.
Like any caliber, more importantly the Bullet must go in the right spot.
I must say this 404 was very easy to shoot with minimal recoil. A real joy.

Original specs were something like 400 grains at 2150fps. And it was enough. It was developed as a muaser rifle counter part to the 450/400 3" which shot a 400 grain bullet at 2125fps and which was a reliable DG round.

You can load it faster now, I believe to 2350fps.

JPK

I have chronographed my 400gr. Swifts at 2350 fps using 93 grs of H4350SC. PM Mark(?) Atkinson for his data.

LJS look at this article by Keith Luckhurst in AH:

http://www.african-hunter.com/reloading_the__404_jeffery.htm

P.S: if anybody has not heard it yet - RWS has resumed its production for .404 with FMJ and JSP:

http://www.rws-munition.de/de/jagd_geschoss/geschoss_be...avid=28&geschoss=VMS

400 gr at 2125 or 2150 is quite anemic. Just because they used to send game scouts out with them is no recommendation I would rely on..

If it was me, I'd use a 400 gr. at 2400 fps or use a 500 gr. 458 at 2150+, or the Lott.

Will,

How 'bout the famed 450/400, one of John Taylor's favorites. His quote goes something like, "I would be happy to hunt with a pair and nothing else for the rest of my life". (paraphrased, but I didn't feel like looking for the quote)

450/400 3 1/4" nominal ballistics 400gr at 2150
450/400 3" nominal ballistics 400gr at 2125
And of course the 404, original nominal ballistics 400gr at 2150, and the cartridge that has probably killed more elephant than any.

Would Taylor's recomendation change your thinking?

JPK

JPK,

Not really. There is one PH that I know of that uses a 450/400 but how many big bulls does he kill a year? It would be difficult to determine which caliber has killed the most elephant.

All the old-time elephant hunters were using the big stuff, or switched to the big stuff at some point, and to my recollection, no one used the 404 or 450/400.

Shoot whatever you want, but he asked the question.

I've chrono'd .404 400 grainers at 2575 fps from a 26 inch barrel using Varget. I based my load work-ups from Saeeds Data.

If you handload you are not restricted to what many may feel is anemic.

Mitchell,

Obviously the case can be hot-rodded but then it is not really a "404" anymore. That is why I suggested 2400 fps, regardless of how one gets there.

Will,

I'm actually in your camp on the power/momentum issue, I think. I have read, for what thats worth, that the 404 is the cartridge used most frequently in history to kill elephants, and that at its historical loading. A nine and a half pound 450/400 appeals to me for the hump, but not the shot.

Today however, I see no reason not to use more. And I haven't ditched my 10 1/2lb double (,yet?).

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Mitchell,

Obviously the case can be hot-rodded but then it is not really a "404" anymore. That is why I suggested 2400 fps, regardless of how one gets there.

Will good point..

Wasn't really thinking about it from that perspective but you're right.

I believe one of the German firms, maybe RWS is loading the 404 to over 2300 with the 400 gr bullet. So if your talking about factory balistics then the 404 is now a horse of a different color.

465H&H