Howdy Ya'll and Happy Thanksgiving,

Am getting my first 375 H&H Magnum,an old Belgium made Browning Medallion with push feed Mauser action.

This rifle will be used mostly for smallish blacktail deer,and for largish black bears,with a slight possiblilty of elk in the future.

I have narrowed down my bullet choice to two bullets,both made by Hornady-either the 270 grain Spire Point or 300 grain Round Nose.

Which would you choose?The 270 SP provides much flatter trajectory at 300 yards,but I have heard a few horror storys about them not opening up.I've heard nothing bad about the 300 grain RN,but I like how flat the 270 grain SP at 2700 FPS shoots.

Any opinions will be greatly appreciated.

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"Only accurate rifles are interesting"

Brian,
I only use 300gr. bullets in my .375H&H, but I only use it in Africa.
I've never heard of a Hornady .375/270gr. not expanding on game when fired from a .375H&H rifle; I doubt you'll ever experience it yourself.
Besides, even if it doesn't expand, you've still punched a .375" hole in something!

George

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Shoot straight, shoot often, but by all means, use enough gun!

Brian,
My brother has a 375 for non danger-ish game. He used a 270gn spirepoint on a largish pig and put it down once with a good old no-vitals-hit gutshot.The bullet exited without expanding a lot though.The pig managed to get up, seriously wobbly, and he shot it again in the head.It did not exit and the skull when the head rotted, revealed a pretty smashed mess of bone.
On another occasion the same bullet on a smaller animal at under 100m left a tear in the abdomen which had most of everything spilling out.
Probably not your classical bullet report, but thought you might be interested.

Have you considered the woodleigh protected points in 270 or 300?

Karl.

Karl,

I got an email sometime ago from Woodleigh and they said to stick with the round nose and semi round nose.

Over the years, I have gained the general impression (obviously exceptions) that the round nose bullets are made to kill and the pointed bullets have to pass tests in magazines (pun intended etc.

Mike

Hmmmmm,think I'll sacrifice the three or four inches of trajectory at 300 yards for reliable bullet performance and go with the Hornady 300 grain RN.

Thanks everyone.

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"Only accurate rifles are interesting"

Brian,

A few years ago on a small property that the owner has basically set up as a rifle range (he mainly uses 22/6mm Rem Imp and 80grain Sierra and JLKs) I had a bench gun in 308. It would shoot composite 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards with 125 Ballistic Tips, 125 Sierras and 130 Grain Speer Hollow Points.

For ballistic coefficient, the 130 Speer with that big hollow that you could jump into with an armfull of chairs was by far the lowest.

We shot the rifle at a rock face that was about 400 yards out. The 130 Speers had the least drop. Tested again at 100 yards in case there had been a change in point of impact. No change in point of impact.

If you want to try an experiment, get a bench 270 and pull the plastic tips from 130 grain ballistic tips and fire them at 300 yards and observe what does not happen. Yet the change in ballistic coefficient is very large.

Geoff McDonald who makes Woodleigh has done a lot of shooting and will tell you that he brought the pointed protected points out due to marketing pressure.

Where you Yanks are unlucky, you have to do far more reading than actual shooting

Come down to Australia and you can shoot until the barrel melts

Karl, we will be checking the ballistic coefficient of the Toyota Lancruiser soon

Mike

Brian,
This might be a stupid question but here it goes.
Why not use 240gr for blacktails and 300 for bears, with premium bullets?
I have no doubt that the Hornadys will work, and using the same load for both range work and hunting has its merits, my hunting sessions are a little too expensive to limit my choice of bullets to Hornadys.

Just my 2 cents

//Jens

Mike,

I still don't swallow it.What's going to fly farther with less of a trajectory curve-a boweling ball or an arrow?You're right,B.C. might not be the answer but I think bullet shape certainly is.

Jthessen,

First,I don't want to shoot a bullet under 270 grains.To me that defeats the whole purpose of the 375.Second,I don't think I need a premium bullet from a 375 for game I can kill very easily with a 257 Roberts with conventional bullets.

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"Only accurate rifles are interesting"

It makes no difference what you shoot on the NA continent with a 375 H&H. all the bullets work.. 270 gr. of any bullet will kill with abandon...270 grs. of bullet failure will kill deer and bear everytime in the 375...

short of Alaskan Brown bear you have not worries...Both Hornadys will work on deer and blackbear...

The scenario you present is a solution to a non existant problem..go on and use the Hornadys...If it bothers you to any degree use the 260 gr. Nosler, I guarentee it will perform with perfection...The 240 TB was a killer deluxe but can't get them anymore...

I like the 300 gr. in Africa, but again its not necessary as a good 270 premium will work also...Solids for Buff and elephant for me.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Brian,

Undoubtedly BC determines trajectory and remaining velocity.

However, I don't think the published BC is always necessarily the actual BC, especially when bullets are fired from rifles with a quick twist. A 1 in 12 in 375 is about like a 1 in 10 in 30 caliber and that is very fast when compared to what is required for say 130 to 150 grains in 30 and 270grains in 375.

I think the spitzer bullets sometimes get a bit sideways or yaw and will drop off in BC when that happens.

I have shot heaps of targets with 270 grain Spire points and the holes don't look like the bullet was 100% point on.

Mike

Brian

I still think You are missing out on the versatility of the 375, if I were to take shots at greater distance than 250 yards(I don�t), the 270 gets the nod.
Regarding overkill, i think Calle Stoltz wrote something about taking a roebuck (smallish deer) with a 416 Rigby

//Jens

Will the Browning stabilize 300 gr. bullets?

I think they had a 1-14.

Ray,

A 270 grain .375 bullet that doesn't expand,unless it hits bone,isn't going to do much as it will pop a .375 inch hole in and out.It would be something like shooting an arrow with a target point on it instead of a broadhead.If you hit bone that would be another story.

Don Martin,

The Browning will not stablize the big 300 grain boat tail spitzers like the Hornady or Siearra.It will stablize 300 grain RNs and all lighter bullets fine.

Jtheesen,

There is only four inches of trajectory difference between the two when loaded to their standard velocitys (2550 and 2700 FPS).That's going from 9 inches low to 13 inches low or about that.Considering I'd never take a 300 yard shot without laser range-finding it and with a rest,I'm sure I can compensate for those four inches.

As for "over-kill",I have a Browning 458 Win. Magnum I plan on hunting deer with next season,using 500 grain Hornady RNs pushed to 2100 FPS or so at the muzzel.If I'm going to pay $0.50 a piece for bullets,I sure as hell am not going to waste them shooting at paper only!

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"Only accurate rifles are interesting"

Mike,
My brother has switched to the 270gn woodleigh roundnose-the bluntest one of the lot. As you said the one you use the most will be the one that shoots best at the furthest distances anyway.I know you have only owned fifty 375 rifles and shot several thousand head of game, so I am surprised you were correct on this one.

Vehicles have an advantage over normal calibres in that they have a reversing capability.
We used a landrover defender last week out west.He favours english/european calibres rather than the Jap stuff like Toyota.

Karl.

Brian
Sounds like You made up Your mind, no worries regarding deformed tips when going for the 300 and if the range finder is present no worries regarding drop either.

Can�t remember who first stated "There is no such thing as overkill"

// Jens

Brian, before you get all your load development done you might check out the GS custom bullets by Gerard. They look very interesting. I think I am going to give them a try. Good hunting. "D"

Brian,
I am basing my statement on cull shooting Kudu, Blesbok, Gemsbok and even Buffalo with solids, and a 375 H&H, and I always got the impression it killed considerably better than the preverbal arrow you refer to.

I have never had an animal, except Buffalo go over about 75 yds. shot with a 375 solid. Buffalo will go further sometimes even with a 500 cal. soft of solid...Its there tenacity for life, regardless of caliber or bullet.

Maybe you had better try it and toss the theory out the window as apparently you have not shot much game with the 375 solid or non expanding bullets.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Ray,

Yes,you bring up good points,BUT I still want the bullet to expand some at least.That's why I'm going with the Hornady 300 grain RNs.

You're right I've never shot any game with a 375 using solid bullets,or expanding bullets for the matter.I've lost two deer to bullets not expanding,with a 25 caliber.I want an expanding bullet in any caliber I shoot game with.Can't compare 25 to 375,but I still want an expanding bullet.

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"Only accurate rifles are interesting"

Brian,
Of course you are right, if give a choice then always use expanding bullets..On cull hunts where price can be reduced based on blood shot meat solids are used or head and neck shots with expanding bullets...Its a great test ground for bullets...

I am willing to go out on the limb and say that the 375 H&H with one of Gerards Flat Nose solids may in fact kill nearly as well and even just as well as an expanding bullet on plainsgame, but school is still out on that one...

What say you, Gerard

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Brian,

I took an eland in Zim in September with the Hornady .375"/270 grain spire point. Both bullets opened up, and weight retention was about 85%. Both bullets hit bone too.

I also shot a warthog through the heart & lungs behind the shoulder. The bullet excited, but obviously opened up.

The rifle was a .376 Steyr ProHunter, which is my new fave medium bore.

The Hornady 270 grain will kill all your deer and black bear without any problem...jim

I have recently started using GS Custom 265gr HV and the 270 gr FN and certainly am happy with the range performance.

Once I have used them on game I will let you know about their performance.

Obviously living in RSA most of the time, I'm happy to use GS's premium bullets, as it's sometimes impossible to get imported premium bullets.

Brian, have a chat to Gerard about his products. He really is an approachable type of guy and is most willing to chat/mail about his products.

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Regards
Dave

Ray,
I say look at the following quotes from "Bullet Penetration" by Duncan MacPherson. He shows quite conclusively that the single most effective incapacitation mechanism is a single, deep, large diameter wound track. As to the most effective bullet shape with which to achieve this, he is quite clear. Page 89: "The maximum disruption is for a sharp edged cylinder." Page 277: "The second factor immediately obvious from table 11-3 is the dramatic difference in effectiveness for a cylinder relative to all other configurations (which differ little from each other).

On one of the other threads I mentioned that a gent in Mpumalanga shot an eland with a 270 gr FN from a 9.3x62. Even though the shot went a bit high through the lungs and he did not have a chance for a second shot, it went down in 35 paces. He reported fairly comprehensive destruction of the lungs and much blood in the chest cavity.

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Gerard Schultz
GS Custom Bullets