Sure, a tiny aperature will sharpen up the open sights for those with defective vision. This is due to the diffraction effect of a pinhole.

The nearsighted can improve their far vision by gazing through a pinhole poked through a note card, a well known fact.

A small aperature must be used, and that alone makes it unsatisfactory for fast shooting, or use on dangerous game at close quarters.

A peep should always be used with no open rear leaf, or a folded down rear leaf, except for precision work at long range, where there is time for the fussiness and it is safe to cover up most of the target with front bead/post, rear leaf, and a small aperature. But a scope would be better there.

A large aperature peep/ghost ring and NO standing/fixed rear leaf is needed on the big bore that might have to be shot quickly at something that could be dangerous to the shooter.

Or: open express sights with no peep.

Or: a low power scope.

I have put this foolishness to rest.

I am going to use a ghost ring rear with a post front blade in conjunction with a low-magnification scope in QD mounts on my next DGR.

George

The RIP hath spoken, so let it be written. And it was.

What a croc!

There is no better combo than a large Ghost ring peep and a post front sight for dangerous game in high grass or thick Jesse unless its a shallow V, depending on your preference.

the peep sight is good for 300 yards and I doubt that one should shoot beyond that range. the shallow V a bit less perhaps, but I have not found that so...

I doubt that RIP has ever used a peep sight on dangerous game based on his "layed to rest" post.

My understanding was that RIP was saying that it wasn't a good idea to use the two simultaneously. Which I have seen people do with Winchester lever actions with a tang peep sight. What a goofy setup that is.

Did I misunderstand?

Ray, You need to read a little closer.

RIP is just making the point that it is improper to have two REAR sights mounted on the same gun at the same time.

He did concede that a ghost ring style peep is an effective sight for DG.

Cheers,
Canuck

http://gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=13944115

Is this considered excessive? Peep sight, leaf sights, and a scout scope....

So what is the concensus on the push button pop up rear peep found on some 602 actions. I was thinking that they were out of the way for most close up shooting ,but push the button and up they come for 100yd shots. Do many other actions come with this set up.

Isn't it difficult to shoot a ghost ring quickly and accurately? It seems as though it would be difficult to do both concurrently to me, anyway. My preference is the shallow vee aka express sight.

Scott

/

Ron and George is this what your looking for.






Take care,
Dave

I don't think there is a faster setup than the peep and post, for any game. Our military switched to it during WWII and it has been the standard rifle sight ever since. It is also idiot proof, as your eye instinctively centers the post. I have found it to work extremely well on pop-up, shoot-back targets.

There is not a more accurate iron setup than using a peep to focus on the barrel sights. What type of game you use it on depends on your own confidence and ability, but I don't think it would be anyone's first choice for close shots. All the factory ones I have seen were designed for 100-300 meters.

Scopes are fine for people who don't know how to align iron sights, as your eye instinctively centers the crosshair within the tube. I just wish more folks would give irons a try before automatically mounting a scope. I agree with the military concept of not introducing a trooper to a scope until he has mastered the irons.

RIP
Is correct, when you have a peep AND a standing rear notch sight, the rear sight is in the way and cancels out the advantage of the peep, especially a ghost ring by obscuring part of the animal.
I know I can shoot better ON PAPER with a peep than I can with with other open sights....
However in the hunting woods I much prefer the open wide V of the British Express Rifle. My favorite open sights are the ones on my 450 No2.
For anytime the wide V is not a good choice I prefer a scope to a peep.

My friends:

GeorgeS,
Good plan. I have done the same.

Nitroman,
A bit tongue-in-cheek from you, but thanks.

Ray,
Like canuck said. I know you can't hear the whippoorwills anymore, but ye ain't blind or senile are ye! I pack a receiver sight on all my hunts if I possibly can. NECG, Lyman, Williams, Ashley, and custom made fold downs that attach to the rear base are some that I have. But not for rifles with fixed standing rear leaf open sights, unless they are long range target sights, but then I would prefer a scope. Get it? I may be a "croc" (thank you!), but you are sounding like a "crock." Get a grip!

Scrollcutter,
You understand. Thank you.

Canuck,
Thanks for the assistance with Ray. Would you mind emptying his drool bucket and changing his diaper while you are at it?

Urodoji,
Fine set up, and note that they did away with the fixed standing leaf rear and kept the fold-downs, since they want to use the fast handling peep on the .458 Lott.

cr500,
I wish I could find one of those BRNO ZKK 602 actions with the built-in pop-up peep. If it were a big boomer/DGR, the standing/fixed rear leaf would go bye-bye.

ScottS,
The ghost ring is surprisingly accurate, and as fast as it gets. A smaller aperature would be slower, but far more accurate than the shorter sight radius of the open express sights. Have a screw out aperature and have both speed and accuracy (for leisurely shooting).

Alf,
You missed the boat too? My corn flakes were fine, thank you. I said nothing to detract from the peep. I made Expert with the M-16 peep sighted, and I was the only whippersnapper in the company to get that ribbon on that go-round.
Some of my rifles have only peeps and posts. Some have peep and post and scope. One of my rifles has rear peep fold down on scope base, quarter rib with fold down rear open sight and scout mounted back-up scope on quarter rib, standard scope mounts on receiver for primary use, and a large gold post front sight. Love those peeps.

470 Mbogo,
Quarter rib mounted "Scout Peep": I dig it if your quarter rib mounted peep is large enough to be fast, and I take it that it is, from the photo.

Kurt C,
Agree.

N E 450 No 2,
Thanks. I like the shallow V and bead too. I can live with a peep or a standing blade rear sight. But I cannot live with both at the same time! It might get me killed!

I think I know of something faster than peep or express sights...I think I'll just pick up a Ruger No. 1 to try it with before I cut up a nice M77.

I have used a Gilmore on a Win 70 rebarreled by Montana Rifleman in 458 Lott with no problems. I haven't set up the mount with the proper spacing to put my Reflex on a DGR (a forward "scout" style would be prefered) but I have no doubt it will work well, I know they have been mounted on MK19s and M2s without problem.
Jason

There's a vast amount of mis-information in the world about iron sights in general. I reckon this is largely due to the great popularity of scope sights, and the resulting lack of experience with irons among the current shooting population. Dangerous-game hunters seem to be almost the last group left that uses iron sights extensively BY CHOICE in the field (as opposed to target shooters, and the low-dollar hunters who shoot whatever the factory provided for sights).

The Brits got it right when the #4 Mk1 Enfield was designed. It has the BIG "battle-sight" aperture for those desperate, close-range situations, and a much smaller aperture on the flip-up sight staff for more more leisurely occasions. The apertures on the M1/M-14 rifles are much too small for fast work, even though legions of our troops used them with good effect. The first thing I do when a new Garand or similar rifle arrives in the house is open-up that tiny aperture. That big #4 Enfield battle-sight aperture still delivers excellent accuracy out to a couple hundred yards, too.

The aperture sight should be mounted as close to the shooter's eye as possible without endangering that eye from recoil, and the proper technique is to IGNORE the rear sight. It's there to be looked "THROUGH", not "AT", and that aperture mounted forward of the scope in the photos is ludicrous, since it loses all the practicality of BOTH aperture and open sights!

There's surely no doubt that an open barrel sight will only clutter-up the sight picture when using the aperture. One type or the other on the rifle, fine, but not both, please! One of my Mannlicher-Schoenauer 1903 rifles has this multi-sight arrangement (with that pop-up aperture in the tang), and it's awkward to sight with.

I killed a huge Wood Bison bull with a round right through the heart from 200 yards with the shallow-V express sight on my .404 Cogswell & Harrison. Nope, we really DON'T need scopes all that badly....do we?

Regards from BruceB (aka Bren Mk1)

/

This is what I am looking at for the rear sight:

In the down position, it allows use of the scope.


In the up position, it is ready to go, as the late Peter Capstick put it, 'mano a mano' with DG.


George

George, have never seen that set up before who makes it?

I'd like to dovetail in a section of Picatinney rail into the quarter rib of an M77 long enough to add a Trijicon Reflex with a quick release base. I'd also like the rib milled to attach a scout scope with Ruger rings. I'd probably leave the factory sights untouched. They suit me quite nicely.

Warne use to make a built in peep sight for their Premier ring bases. I put a set of these on my son's 12 ga. A-Bolt so he would have a peep rear sight if he needs to remove the scope for any reason. Slicker than snot on a door knob, but Warne quit making them. I even tried to get them to make me a couple of set for another couple of arms but to no avail. I guess it would take a large order to get them to make a run, but I sure wish they would bring them back.

Dave James... I belive that is Brockman's newest offering Brockman's

[ 12-05-2003, 00:39: Message edited by: tiggertate ]

Cannuck,
I was just joshin RIP a little, I know he is a peeper....

You see he ticked me off about a piller bedded rifle some years ago, with his lack of knowledge and rumblings of doubt, and I will never forget it...

Actually, there is little that RIP sez that I disagree with but I have been know to stir up some s--t from time to time if I get bored and I was getting bored...

Actually I use a peep or shallow V more than I do a scope and ALL my guns have peep, shallow V and scopes for the most part...I cut the one standing off flush and use the two down sighted at 50 and 100 yards. My peep is sighted at 2" high at 100 yards. Scope at 2" high at 100...that way I have 4 sights available, no chance of a breakdown....My peep is a talley and I carry it in my cartridge belt...

Hi Ron,
That's the Ashley (Express sights) with the large diameter peep. Yes it's very quick for sighting.
Take care,
Dave

[ 12-05-2003, 07:48: Message edited by: 470 Mbogo ]

Ray,
This issue shall Rest In Peace, at least in my mind!

As always, it has been fun, and you know that!

And yes, Ray, you are a legend in your own time AND in your own mind, and we all know that!

Which of the two is more classic African the bolt peep or the express V ??

PC,
Of course the shallow V and bead would be considered most classic African, due the frequency found on express rifles and small bores, both doubles and bolt actions, with their multiple folding leaves, etc.

This does not mean it is best, but it is very rugged, compact/clutter-free, and beautiful.

A peep and post may be faster and more accurate in practice.

Many double rifles will have a flat top rear with square notch and a post front sight, for express sights, and they are fast and accurate, and the most rugged and clutter-free of all.

Plenty of peeps on cocking pieces, receivers, etc., but definitely, the "classic" African sights would be the shallow V and bead.

GeorgeS,
That Brockman rig on a Talley base is the sweetest peep setup I have ever seen. I shall at once commence to acquiring one for my Pre-64 M70 .375 H&H "Featherweight." Surely I can find one with the proper hole spacing for the Pre-64 M70 300 H&H/.375 H&H rifle. Then, after that ... oh geez this could get expensive! Thanks.

A nice addition to the Brockman peep sight might be Tom Burgess' pop up front sight.

Thanks RIP.

I must admit I like the lines of the Qtr. Rib and shallow V but for some reason the bolt peep has me curious and it has a kind of interesting look to it.

I'll post another photo of Delucci's bolt peep.

I'm sure that most of you are getting tired of seeing it, but some people have missed the threads where I posted the photos.

I know I should ignore this, but peep sights are fine for accurate shooting which is not really necessary in hunting dangerous game.

If cat hunting and for most buffalo a scope will (should) be used. For many buff and elephant an open V rear sight is what is required.

The rest of this belabors more nit-picking about irrelevant winter-project-boredom stuff.

Well, thank you for gracing this thread Bwana Will.

This topic should REST IN PEACE and nobody should ever recommend a peep AND a fixed standing leaf open rear sight together on a DGR, ever again. Yes, Will, it has been going around, and it needed to be nixed for safety sake.

Somebody with an aperature rear sight along with whatever good front bead or post might beat the shallow V and bead, at any contest.

A 1X scope might beat everything, unless we are just pointing and shooting at spitting distance. Then they are all equal.

Back to those winter projects ...

Tired of seeing it? I think not...
In fact I wish I had one here so I could look at it as often as I wanted...

Pettson

I have a couple of bolt peeps that I would sell if anyone is really interrested, just like Scrolcutters picture...I guess $350 would be a fair price, if not tell me.

Scroll cutter,

I have forwarded your pics to my smith I am thinking I would like to use that exact style peep but was wondering can I still have a qtr. Rib but just no leaves ?? would this still fit the bill as classic ?? I just love the look of the bolt peep.

Is that bolt peep fully adjustable as far as windage and elevation go ??

PC

Yes, the sight is adjustable for windage and elevation. The sight has a plunger that fits into a notch (that you will fit to the fixed portion of the sight for your ammo and gun) for the elevation. For windage the apperture is drilled off-center in the disc. So as your rotate the disc you get your windage. Adjust the windage first, then the elevation.

As far as the quarter rib is concerned you could still have one. Just remove the fixed rear sight and leave the folding sight blades.

One more stupid question on what occasions would people flip up the espress sights if they happen to have both a bolt peep and flip up leaves on a Qtr. Rib ??