So why is it that my recently acquired ZKK 602 375 H&H's stock weighs 27 oz whilst my M70 416 Rem goes 44 oz. Seems the Winnie can go on a diet. In fact, it will. A 9# 416 all up seems about ideal. Yes?

Go as light as you can and still be comfortable with that caliber. There is no doubt shedding weight makes for a better hunt especially if it involves a lot of walking. The stock should also fit you properly to mitigate recoil as much as possible. Only you can decide what is right for you.

I have heard guys at the range complain that their 10 pound 308 Win with a muzzle break kicks like a mule. I believe their shooting technique is more the problem than the caliber. I used to believe this kind of thinking....."Anybody can shoot a 505 Gibbs once but it takes a man to shoot it twice." While it takes a stout individual to handle such a beast regularly I now believe it has more to do with technique and rifle design. There are older experienced shooters on this forum that can outshoot most any young person with big bores simply because they know what they are doing.

You are spot on Sid, Technique is everything. My 505 used to wrench my shoulder until I started using the right technique, which I found from reading this forum. I can shoot 30 to 40 in a day now, and although I find it does tire me out a bit, and my accuracy starts to suffer after about a dozen shots, I don't end up with bruising or residual pain afterwards.

quote:

Originally posted by 338User:
505.....I can shoot 30 to 40 in a day.....

Wow, that is impressive; I would love to learn your technique!

Yep!!! most at my club range try lying at the bench not setting! Then look at you Funny as they complain of recoil but will not listen as you try to show them a better way. In this case being dumb will hurt!!We have to use a shotgun or muzzle loader to hunt deer here in southern Michigan. So fall bring out the part timers to sight in there new slug guns and a new batch of hard cases to make you shake your head and wonder about! Clint

My Two Cents: I have the same M70 in 416 Rem mag, and I firmly believe that the extra weight is part of what makes it shoot so sweet, because the percieved recoil is less. I just carried mine all over Zambia, and the weight wasnt an issue at all (for me). If you do change the stock, please let us know if there is a difference in recoil.

A naked 416 Rem. should weigh 8-3/4 to 9 lbs. and thats about 9-3/4 to 10 with a scope and full of ammo..

A big bore needs to be pulled tight into the shoulder with the trigger hand, and snugged back firmly with the forend hand..This creates a push, held lightly creates a WACK cuz it gives the gun a run at your shoulder!

My 404 weighs 8 lbs. naked and recoil is very tolerable with a 400 gr. bullet at 2400 FPS held in this fashion.

Off a bench I have a "International Rest", that takes up 95% of any rifles recoil, its great for testing loads and mostly for filing in iron sights on the really big bores. The early on filing of big bore iron sights is probably what contributed to my shoulder and neck bursitas according to the docs that hunt with me..

A good muzzle brake is a boone to big bore rifles or for anyone recoil sensitive..

Most brakes today come with a thread protector and you can use the brake on the bench for sighting in and testing loads, then take it off and put on the thread protector for hunting.

While your at the range you should also shoot about 5 rounds off hand without the brake at the end of each shooting session and as a rule, within the year, you will have weaned yourself off the brake altogether..worked for me and the 500s..I no longer use any brakes, but it was not that way in the beginning.

To each his own but I never could see the smarts in shooting reduced loads to learn to handle recoil, I know too many folks that shoot the 30-06 and they can't shoot a 300 Wby, I would say an 06 load is a reduced Wby load! Go figure! Gotta blame some gun scribe on this one I suspect...

Mine weighs 11lbs 3oz (on a fish scale) when all dressed for the prom. Recoil is considerably less than my old 375H&H.

I agree that a 9 lbs naked 404 rifle is ideal. My 9.3X62 Simson weighs 9 lbs with scope & ammo.

How do you slim down a stock without upsetting the balance and handling? I had a Winchester mod 70 in 6.5X55 that was slimmed down with wood drilled out of the for end and under the recoil pad., This changed the balance and so the rifle did not come up naturally to my shoulder like my other rifles. In fact i missed out on deer a few times simply because of the poor handling. It was also not good for off hand quick shooting.

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
I agree that a 9 lbs naked 404 rifle is ideal. My 9.3X62 Simson weighs 9 lbs with scope & ammo.

How do you slim down a stock without upsetting the balance and handling? I had a Winchester mod 70 in 6.5X55 that was slimmed down with wood drilled out of the for end and under the recoil pad., This changed the balance and so the rifle did not come up naturally to my shoulder like my other rifles. In fact i missed out on deer a few times simply because of the poor handling. It was also not good for off hand quick shooting.

That assumes that it is "balanced" to begin with. I like my rifles (sixguns too) a bit heavy out front. The Win 416 does not feel that way to me. The CZ does and it feels great to me. I have a second stock for the 416 bought from CDNN that will get whittled on to see if I can get it right. Thanks for all the comments.