See the caliber mentioned from time to time and noted on their web site, but any first hand knowledge, experience, ownership of the caliber/rifle combo?? Could one rebore heavy barrel 375HH, as in RSM, to the caliber?? Curious.

Probably plenty others on the forum who have more direct knowledge, but as none of them have chimed in... I've seen and handled some of H&H's example rifles and rounds ( 375 - 400 - 465) in the London store several times. Initially that was with the same interest as you express - conversion of a 375 to a 400 H&H.

The shoulder on the 400 is considerably further back than that of the 375. I suspect a rechambering of a 375 barrel would require a setback of at least 2-3 thread - then rechambering. Probably be better off getting a new barrel and chambering for the 400 H&H if that is what you want.

If I were reboring and rechambering a 375, I would go to the 416 Rem and deal with the probable need to tune the rails and box to assure reliable feeding for the fatter round. That path forward is a bit more than idle speculation as I have a pretty nice lookling Pre-64 375 with a very rough bore that I've considered converting to it a 400 "something" for a while... If a 400 H&H did not require the setback I would have done that several years ago. Problem is, my 375 still shoots plenty good for hunting purposes, and I'm not yet inclined to dump the $ into it (essentially the action) to make something special. Good luck...

Here showing .375, .400 and .465 H&H.
Having both the two first in my hand and my calipers in the other, set back is obviously neseccary.
A rebarrel is a sounder idea, IMO.

Hello,
Thanks for the thoughtfull and informative responses regarding the 400H&H matter. After reading, viewing cartridge, can see why the re-barrel would be the way to go.
Not sure why I would want to do this since I have what seems like a crate full of 375 brass, bullets, etc., but anything Holland and Holland peaks my curiosity. Again thanks for the responses.

Yes, you can do that...why? is the question and I can't come up with any logical question why one would choose a 400 H&H unless he just had to have something that nobody else did, in which he needs to visit my shrink!

Hello Ray,
I had heard that you were having some problems in that area and wish you and your shrink the very best. You are absolutely correct though, not sure why I would want one over the 375H&H, but always curious about such things. Now I know. What are your thoughts on the 465H&H, the same??

I recommend the .395 and I was smarter than all fourth year psychiatry residents during my first year of psychiatry residency according to my "In-Service Training Exam" score, the highest of all four years of the residency. And the psychiatry professors were hanging themselves ... at least no bullets were wasted ...
Screw the 400 H&H. Go with a .395.

Why go with the 465 H&H when you can get that nice light recoiling 475 A&M ...



Chuck

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
in which he needs to visit my shrink!

He's not doing that good of a job!


Mine quit and started punching holes in doughnuts!!

quote:

Originally posted by dsiteman:
See the caliber mentioned from time to time and noted on their web site, but any first hand knowledge, experience, ownership of the caliber/rifle combo?? Could one rebore heavy barrel 375HH, as in RSM, to the caliber?? Curious.

Have you ever considered .404 jeffery?

A soooo much better round, and sooooo much easier to work with from a gunsmiths point of view

quote:

Screw the 400 H&H. Go with a .395.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Yes, you can do that...why? is the question and I can't come up with any logical question why one would choose a 400 H&H unless he just had to have something that nobody else did, in which he needs to visit my shrink!

Well...........
Pretty much the same can be said about the 10,75x68, altho not as rear a bird as the .400 H&H, it still is not an over the counter cartridge, neither in the US nor in Africa.

No, did not think of the 404Jeffery, but good suggestion would say. Not that familiar with the cartridge, but would think far more common than the 400 H&H or the 465 H&H. I will take a look at that one for sure. The base for all of these "possibles" will be a Ruger RSM action and not sure just how large a caliber you can go with the action, but would think quite large other than something really on the fringes. All suggestions appreciated.

The 404 with the new Norma PH ammo (as another poster mentioned) using 450g Woodleigh softpoints and solids at 2150 fps really comes into it's own. And if Remington would make their lovely Safari grade ammo in 470 Capstick with 500g Swift A-Frames it would definitely move that cartridge from the fringes into popularity in my opinion.

Nice photos of the H&H cartridges.
Bent Fossdal, can you you tell me what that semi spitzer bullet is in the left most .375 cartridge case?

Greenjoy, sorry, I found this pic here on the forum, and know only that it is Hollands new rounds next to the old queen.

/

quote:

Originally posted by greenjoy:
Nice photos of the H&H cartridges.
Bent Fossdal, can you you tell me what that semi spitzer bullet is in the left most .375 cartridge case?

It looks to me very like a 270 grn Winchester Power Point, especially with the small folds in the front of the jacket. I lightened up the image a bit & compared it to the ones in a box of these I have & it matches in appearance & profile pretty much exactly.
Steve

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:


They will go whoopin and hollerin after some obscure .395 caliber, sing the praises of some old now largely defunct and obsolete 409 or 411 caliber, just because it's fired from a double, but will, at the stroke of the keyboard denounce as herecy and blasphemy H&H's 400 ????

They are all silly cartridges.

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
How fickle the AR big bore brigade

They will go whoopin and hollerin after some obscure .395 caliber, sing the praises of some old now largely defunct and obsolete 409 or 411 caliber, just because it's fired from a double, but will, at the stroke of the keyboard denounce as herecy and blasphemy H&H's 400 ????

One can but stand, in a state of "wonderment" at the antics of this interesting gathering ????

Sir, I resemble that remark!

Behold!
The .395 Ein Halb Teufel, the one on the right:

we merely search for increased performance, be it MV/ME or a more compact package.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Question: the 400 H&H is based upon the 375 case, right? By necking the brass to accept the 40 bullet, they have to move the neck back. doesn't this intrude on the available powder space? Wouldn't this, in turn, allow for less powder, or a compacted load to move the projectile? Wouldn't this equal a higher pressure? Not to highjack the thread but this brings up a point I was thhinking about:

I have a book by Wayne Van Zwoll entitled, "Modern Sporting rifle Cartridges", green cover many of you probably own. The 375 Weatherby Magnum is listed as having an operating pressure of 60,000 psi while the H&H shows an opeating pressure of 62,000 psi. In hot climes shooting 350 grain bullets wouldn't one find it preferrable to shoot the Weatherby cartridge knowing it could also chamber H&H? Am I missing something here?

quote:

Originally posted by jens poulsen:

quote:

Originally posted by dsiteman:
See the caliber mentioned from time to time and noted on their web site, but any first hand knowledge, experience, ownership of the caliber/rifle combo?? Could one rebore heavy barrel 375HH, as in RSM, to the caliber?? Curious.

Have you ever considered .404 jeffery?

A soooo much better round, and sooooo much easier to work with from a gunsmiths point of view

I agree with Jens.

I'd dearly like to have a .400 H&H to go with my 300 H&H and my 375 H&H but just can't find a reason beyond that.....Holland really blew it with this one.....it's a cartridge for little rich boys and not too smart ones at that.

I do not think they "blew it". They were just not making a bestseller, and I think they knew it. That as just not their intention. For a mild .40, it should be exelent. Rich boys, well, yes, but is it really so much more expensive than, say, the .470 Mbogo?

/

I like the looks of the .400 H&H...but why did they not get rid of that belt?? It could be the slickest feeding cartridge of all times
The .404 Jeffery is still one of the finest big-game cartridges and is much better cartridge in a standardlength mauser action.
The jeffery cartridgeprogram for standard mauser 333/280, .333, .404 and the.500 has not been superceeded by any of the H&H,Rigbys or Westley Richards...imho.

The belt and the case taper are part of the Holland house style, which is part of the reason they are there. Other part is performance based.

The bullets in the Wolfgang Romey factory cartridge are Woodleigh, and are the same profile as the .450-.400 bullets but they are "toughened" for the higher velocity of the .400 H&H (according to Geoff).

jim

I'm neither rich nor crazy but I do occasionally build something just for sh*ts and grins, including my recent 400 H&H. I'd say it is about as useful as any other .411 to .416 in its class but not practical in that there may never be a reasonable supply of factory ammo. But cases can be formed with 375 brass or bought from Quality Ctg. if you want the correct headstamp. I bought 80 cases and I'm quite sure that will last longer than I will.

Very easy to make a reliable feeding rifle as well; probably a big part of the H&H design philosophy behind the case shape.

Factory ballitics are 2350 with a 400 gr bullet and that is not hard to acheive. If you want a flatter trajectory than that, go with a bigger case like the Rigby or the 416 Weatherby.

quote:

Originally posted by chuck375:
The 404 with the new Norma PH ammo (as another poster mentioned) using 450g Woodleigh softpoints and solids at 2150 fps really comes into it's own. And if Remington would make their lovely Safari grade ammo in 470 Capstick with 500g Swift A-Frames it would definitely move that cartridge from the fringes into popularity in my opinion.

But if you load 450 gr bullets in the 458 Win you have a better round that will do all and more than, in a nicer little rifle than is far more readily available .. The 450 gr Rem Premium Safari Ammo loaded with the 450 gr Swift A Frame would be great if it actually did the 2150 fps that it says it will on the box ......
I don,t see that the 400 H&H has anything the 416 Rem doesn,t have better .........The 400 would look ok if it was a flanged round ,, but it looks decidedly odd as a belted round ......Just my 2 cents worth ... 400 Pondoro is superior imo ..

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
When I was last in New York I visited the NY Holland and Holland Gunroom and must say came away very disappointed.
They had one 400 H&H on display and I looked it over, built on what appears to be a aftermarket or possibly original FN action, be as it may, the rifle imo was not worth the 40,000 that they were asking. In fact I would buy 4 x 10,000 dollar American customs like Breedings or such like and would be better off !

I have stated simmilar numerous times, perhaps when coming from ALF, it might sink in...

Isn't The 400 H&H's latest input into its rifles
I read all about it in a book. Shes a nice rifle.

Seated next to the .404 Jeffery, the simmilarity is obvious. The .400H&H have a smaller bullet, lesser case capasity and a belt, othervise they are almost twins.
One can always debate the use and need for the H&H, compared to the Jeffery and the more modern .416 RemMag, but it is hard to say that the round itself is no good.

Can't quite understand why everybody gets weird about this kind of stuff. If we were basing our decisions on pure practicality we would only have a tiny fraction of the cartridges that are available today. If somebody wants a 400 H&H for the sake of it, I say fantastic. Might build one myself. I think it is one of the most handsome cartridges of all. All the talk about the minutia of case design related to feeding.... doesn't enter into the equation for a competent builder. Someone mentioned Ryan Breeding earlier, I've discussed this issue at some length with him and he will tell you that just about any of them can be made to feed well. The bigger problem is with the "modern" designs that have little case taper and steep shoulders.

Anybody ever take a look at every smokeless military round ever designed for use in repeating rifles? There are a lot of similarities. Hope this stirs the pot a little.

TMc

Actually I thinkthe taper has a lot more to do with ease of extraction as much or more than feeding. A hold-over from the old days, probably.

Tigertate,

I neglected to mention that in my statement. Taper helps extraction as well. Don't think it's an obsolete concept either, just look at the 338 Lapua. Like dangerous game cartridges should be, military rounds are designed for optimum reliability as a primary criteria.

TMc

If a man wants a 400 Holland then good luck to him and let him have one.
What's the point of having your own mind if all you do is say and behave as others do.

Yes, the 404 Jeffery is an odd duck.
It has about the least body taper of any cartridge around. Check the CIP specs.

The taper of the 404 Jeffery comes from its shoulder and neck.

Also note that the .416 Rigby body taper is about as great as any cartridge around, though its extreme 45-degree shoulder gives an appearance/impression/optical illusion of the opposite.

The .416 Rigby has way more case body taper than the 404 Jeffery.

The .338 Lapua Magnum has the exact, same, generous case body taper as the .416 Rigby, however it has a 20-degree shoulder starting lower down on the case than the Rigby shoulder.

The .338 Lapua Magnum is perfection, and is a model for the .398 Lapua Magnum, which is a simple neckup to .395.

The .395 Tatanka is simply a .398 Lapua lengthened from 2.724" to 2.900" case length by moving the same 20-degree shoulder out to give same neck length, same case body taper, hence a slightly lesser shoulder diameter which is then back to identical to the .416 Rigby shoulder location and diameter, a .395 Lapua-Long. Slick feeding and extracting for full automatic fire, or for flawless bolt action function.

Rave, rave, rave ... whoopin' it up here!

quote:

Originally posted by dsiteman:
No, did not think of the 404Jeffery, but good suggestion would say. Not that familiar with the cartridge, but would think far more common than the 400 H&H or the 465 H&H. I will take a look at that one for sure. The base for all of these "possibles" will be a Ruger RSM action and not sure just how large a caliber you can go with the action, but would think quite large other than something really on the fringes. All suggestions appreciated.

When you think .404 you should also think in terms of the 450/400 as the .404 was developed to be a rimless version.
Bill

As much as I love the .404 Jefferys, I realize its mostly nostalgia...The smart thing for you to do is rebarrel it to a .416 Remington, it's cheap to load by big bore standards, its a factory round, it's perfectly capable of killing anything on the planet, ammo is readily available world wide for the most part.

Bill Cooley,
Granted you are correct, BUT that implication no longer exist with todays powders..The 404 can send a 400 gr. bullet downrange at as much as 2653 FPS in my 27" barrel and 2585 FPS in a 24 inch barrel according to tests done by Northfork Industries with 95 grs. of IMR-4831 and be within safe but max or near max specs..The 450-400 is stil stuck at a max of 2200 FPS..