I am contemplating a .378 Weatherby DGR,
due to an epiphany pointed out by Mike375's statements about drop box three down, vertical stack that feeds flawlessy even the most obtuse of blunt bullets in a fat case, etc. etc.

Like news that cold fusion is real and is here to replace fossil fuels.

Sumbuddy who know any experience with chronographing a short barreled .378 Weatherby?

22" barrel and night fire? How was the flash?

If a 26" barrel can do 2925 fps with a 300 grain bullet, what will a 22" barrel do? 2800 fps at max pressures? Or is there a greater loss than about 30 fps/inch in this caliber?

Then taming it down to 2700 fps would be easy and no 26" barrel with Accubrake would be needed.

Same benefits and a reason for existence for the .416 Wby and .460 Wby?

I've got a .378 Wby made by rechambering a 25" barreled CZ 550 Magnum in .375 Wby. But that is a low life classless thing to do, eh?

Actually I find the Weatherby Mark V stock and the CZ Lux stock to offer similar benefits and to suit me to a Tee.

Elvis is fond of them both too. I talked to him about it when I caught him coming out of a Whimpey's burger joint in Gabarone, Botswana in 2001. He said he was headed to the Okavango for some elephant and buffalo hunting with his trusty CZ and Mark V. He said he loved the fit of both stocks and how they handled recoil.

RIP,

Here is Mitchs data with powders available to you. I reckon, based on chronographing 270 and 300 Wins from 22 inch barrels....about 130 f/s...make sure you fit a brake to get the full noise value.

By the way, I agree with Mich s data that Re 22 and 7828 will go well over 3000 f/s with 300 grainers, at least in Mark Vs.

http://www.accuratereloading.com/378wby.html

quote:

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Originally posted by Mike375:
RIP,

Here is Mitchs data with powders available to you. I reckon, based on chronographing 270 and 300 Wins from 22 inch barrels....about 130 f/s...make sure you fit a brake to get the full noise value.

By the way, I agree with Mich s data that Re 22 and 7828 will go well over 3000 f/s with 300 grainers, at least in Mark Vs.

http://www.accuratereloading.com/378wby.html

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O.K. so 3000 fps with 300 grainer in 26" barrel translates to 2870 fps in 22" barrel?

That ought to be really mild/low pressure if brought down to 2700 fps.

And to cure the muzzle flash from starting forest fires and blinding bystanders? Varget and filler??? Never mind that.

What is the bulkiest powder with burn rate somewhere between RL-15 and IMR-7828?

Sounds like a job for H-4831 "Long Cut" Extreme, or IMR-4831.

Or maybe the other approach would be a case full of H50BMG or something slower for a mild load and flame thrower capabilities.

You don't need fillers.

By the way, you could just buy some 3/8" dowell of brass or copper and have your local engineering shop cut them in lengths and use wadcutters.

The very long freebore in a 378 would let you seat them out to normal length.

As a by the way, John S has a 450 Dakota and is looking at the idea of getting a wood gun by Echols in 460. He was telling me that both his 450 Dakota and a friend of his 450 Dakota are peaking out at 2450 with 500s. Brass is holding OK but more powder is not giving more velocity. With 115 grains of IMR 4350 460s do an easy 2500 and all seem to shoot with that load. They go just over 2600 when the first hint of ejector marks occur.

Maybe old Roy knew more than some people give him credit for.

Mike

RIP,

we think alike !!,

My Nyati has a Weatherby styled composite and so does my cz .416 I like either the Hogs back or the weatherby style go figure

I also do not feel a cz 550 in .378 is tasteless

PC,

I just bought the most tasteless gun of all

It came from a mate of mine who is a bit of a Weatherby collector and he wanted to relieve himself of a rifle to make another purchase which has just come up for him.

The rifle (a Weatherby) is called the Safari Custom Classic and in 375 H&H. There were 130 of them made in 1993 and this one is unfired.

It has the classic stock, quarter rib and barrel band front sight and barrel band sling swivel. And of course being made in 1993 it is a Made in Japan Weatherby. I got it for $4250. They were $2995US when they came out.

Now for the amazing thing. A mixture of all that on a Weatherby and a Made in Japan Weatherby and in 375 H&H sounds about as bad as you can get.

But let me tell you, you have never seen such a good looking or nice handling 375 H&H as this thing. And obviously with a handle like Mike375 I have seen the odd 375 or two.

It will be a candidate for the 40 grains of 2205 and 220 Hornadys as well as load that would be around the 35 Whelen level.

The bloke that owns it reckons I should not shoot it but that won't happen. He is picking up some 1973 Custom 240 that is unfired and at the right price as the bloke needs to money NOW.

My two 378s are still at HP gun shop but licence should be through soon. For various reasons of a traumatic nature I fogot to renew mine but I don't have to do the test and that bullshit.

By the way, what will happen at your end of town with CZ and 505 Gibbs.

On the Wby stock it is really the same as the old English rifle (Centre of butt to centre of bore measurement) but with cheek piece monte carlo added for scope use. The rifle rises in recoil and slips away from your face and the recoil velocity is split between straight back and up.

Those CZ 505s, I think you will have to bring that in yourself as CZ USA is making them or getting them made. Perhaps the actions have been done as 505s over in CZ land.

I get a nice picture of a big dollar CZ for you and post it up. I think I know where it is and should only take couple of minutes.

Mike

PC

Go here

http://www.champlinarms.com/#

When it opens click Gun Vault on the lower right side.

The screen that opens will have 22 Rimfire entered. Use the drop down list and select Bolt Action and then click on Speed Search

Then scroll down and you will see $13750 and that 505 is it made on a BRNO.

Anyone who is a CZ fan MUST have a 505.

Mike

Mike,

that is an awsome rig.........and I agree I MUST have a .505 Gibbs.............now how to finance it

On the .378 in a cz I feel it really is a practical mix, the weight of the cz .375 H&H is quite well suited to the .378 round.............lack of charisma aside it is darn practical I feel.

PC,

If you get a rechamber make sure who does knows that the freebore needs to be very close to bullet diamter. Specification is .0005 (half a thou) over bullet diameter as compared to a .0015 (thou and half for ordinary chambers)

Both the 378 and 460 have very long freebore. Tobler has reamers but they are Clymers. You might want JGS or Manson.

Personally, on a CZ I think I would prefer a 375/416 which would be easy to do. Redding dies would only be about $150US as long as it is a straight 416 neck down because they already have the gear for the 416 body.

Then there is what RIP is doing the 375/338 Lapua.

By the way, converting a 300 Wby to 378 is easy. 378 box and follower, open bolt face and new extractor. Wbys don't use the action rails for feeding. They need a small notch ground on the front receiver ring so loaded ammo ejects easily. The shorter Wbys like 257, 270, and 7mm also need the slot along the bottom of the bolt lengthended. Tobler said the metal is very hard as sometime ago he changed a 270 Wby into a 416 Wby.

Given that you can shoot all and everything with a Ruger Stainless in 308 we must all be fucking mad

Mike

PC,
You and I have tastes fit for a king in rifle stocks, aye. And the .378 Wby CZ 550 Magnum is special, suits me just fine.

Mike375,
Now I have been corrupted into thinking of doing the .375 Lapua on a Mark V action, with a Dan Lilja barrel (stainless fluted No.6 contour), in an HS precision stock I happen to have on hand for the Mark V. Nice aluminum bedding block. And then the drop box.

I may as well try to do some horse trading on a Wby DGR in .378 too. Looney Toons.

This way lies Madness!
.375 Wby in CRF with 3.8" box and 5 down plus one in the chamber, and a 24" barrel, is Nirvana!

Get thee behind me satan!

The anti-epiphany has arrived.

Almost lead astray by Mike375 ...

375 Wby in CRF with 3.8" box and 5 down plus one in the chamber, and a 24" barrel, is Nirvana!

That has the all the terrible sounds of a CZ.

Mike

quote:

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Originally posted by Mike375:
_375 Wby in CRF with 3.8" box and 5 down plus one in the chamber, and a 24" barrel, is Nirvana!_

That has the all the terrible sounds of a CZ.

Mike

---

Aye, mate, I cannot abandon the .375 Weatherby in CRF. It is just the best combo of all.

It out .375's the .375 H&H for versatility. Just not flash enough for Mr. Weatherby. Or just too sensible to go into a Mark V when a standard .375 H&H rechambers so easily, completely cleans up with the new outstanding throat. A CZ 550 Magnum in .375 H&H reamed to Weatherby makes the ultimate rifle, only needs a new trigger and safety, but the factory ones work pretty well.

I do have three Mark V's:
.270 Win Ultra Light Weight
.30-378 Synthetic in an HS Precision Stock
.340 FiberMark from 1985

It's a poor man's North American battery.

Now back to the .375 Lapua ... Just one more.
(Yeah. Right!)

I'm still holding out for a stainless Magnum Mauser 98. (Yeah. Right!) May have to settle for a Granite Mountain or Dakota 76.

Winchester is doing the 416 Wby is their lower priced $3000US custom shop rifle and they do stainless in wood.

Perhaps they might do a 375/338 Lapua.

Do Dakota or Granite do a Stainless action.

By the way, I think the 375/338 Lapua, in fact everything from 270/338 Lapua through to 45 is excellent.

In fact, for my "home straight rifles" I considered that option done on CZs out here or similar bore sizes on the 416 Rigby case.

Bur Ed Weatherby was pleading for funds for his sailing and golfing and sicne I just love women with big tits and coloured bras, well you can work at the rest.

My own personal opinion is that the 300 Ultra case is about the ideal capacity but the Lapua just adds some extra class to the deal.

Mike

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike375:
Winchester is doing the 416 Wby is their lower priced $3000US custom shop rifle and they do stainless in wood.

Holy crap! Amazing news to me! I thought they quit the .416 Rigby due to incompatibility with the M70.

Perhaps they might do a 375/338 Lapua.

No thanks on that.

Do Dakota or Granite do a Stainless action.

Dakota started to say they would offer a 76 in stainless last year but have reverted to only the 97 now. Granite Mountain: no. But hey, maybe the chrome moly is stronger anyway, if exploding stainless Sako's are any indication.

By the way, I think the 375/338 Lapua, in fact everything from 270/338 Lapua through to 45 is excellent.
Agreed. Lapua has even offered a .308 Lapua as a factory round. I have great results with the .45 Lapua ... 2500 fps with 500 grainers in a 22" barrel is no problem, so I don't see how anyone could top out with 2450 fps in a 450 Dakota??? Must be the throat. I have a long throat on mine.

In fact, for my "home straight rifles" I considered that option done on CZs out here or similar bore sizes on the 416 Rigby case.

Bur Ed Weatherby was pleading for funds for his sailing and golfing and sicne I just love women with big tits and coloured bras, well you can work at the rest.
Aye ... the flesh is willing and the spirit is strong.

My own personal opinion is that the 300 Ultra case is about the ideal capacity but the Lapua just adds some extra class to the deal.

Agreed. No rebate, big rim to push. Strong head. Nice Rigby body taper and slick 20 degree Lapua shoulder, same capacity in .375 Lapua as in .375 RUM, but greater capacity by seating the bullet in the 2.7" case out to 3.75" crimped with a proper cannelure or with no crimp. Neck length is right at one caliber. A "new" .375 Weatherby type throat used on the .375 Lapua would be optimum.

Mike

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Thanks, Mike, for helping me through this easy decision.

Ron,

The first time I saw a 338 Lapua cartridge I nearly fell in love. One of barrel makers, probably our counterpart of your Pac Nor, did a lot with the 338 Lapua. Even made an action for it and rifle that weighed whatever, but real heavy target style. I was at the range with him when he first tried it and worked up some loads.

A lot blokes on www.longrangehunting.com seem to go for the Lapua Improved for 30 and 338 over the Rigby Improved because of the Lapua brass.

I think I have also read over there that the Norma 416 Rigby brass is less robust than the 378 based Wbys and also less Robust than the 338 Lapua they make.

The 338 Lapua brass is aslo cheaper in Australia than the Wby 378 bases calibres.

Good thing, no doubt of that.

An idea for you. What about an HS Precision as they come in all stainless and make a big noise about the 338 Lapua. You can buy them without the stock. Wood look sharp in a good wood stock. Write a few extra presciptions.

Mike

Mike & RIP,

there is no doubt in my head we are all spastic.............Mikes Right a stinking old "Tomato Stake" (Ruger Stainless boat Paddle 30/06................which I own an example of) would do 99% of the shooting I do and maybe the .375 cz thrown in for the odd Gulf trip.

I Just don't like hunting unless I Like or have an interest in the caliber I am shooting.........now RIP, a cz in .378 WM to me is something I should consider adding to the arsenal just to fly in the face of "whats right"

In fact it is probably more versatile than the H&H when you consider you could have a lower pressure 2400 fps 300 gr plinker.

Actually my cz .378 Weatherby Magnum would make a fine matched pair with my "sunday best" 1909 .404 J that is not far of being done

PC,

The great thing about the 378 is that it saves you fucking about with 7mm and 300 Magnums.

You can hit 3200 f/s with 270 grainers and they are the same sectional density as a 182 grain 30 or a 155 grain 7mm.

It would be a perfect match up for a nicely made 404. By the way, does your 404 have the thumb cut Mauser.

Actually, you will be caught between getting the CZ USA 505 Gibbs and a 500 Jeffery made by De Vries/Waghorn on a Mauser.

The 500 Jeffery would be a lot easier to play with because of the .510 bullets and the smaller case cpacity would make for much greater ease in reduced load fucking about than the 505 Gibbs.

Mike

quote:

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Originally posted by PC:
Actually my cz .378 Weatherby Magnum would make a fine matched pair with my "sunday best" 1909 .404 J that is not far of being done

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Nah, you are mixing the tasteful with the tasteless there, PC.

A better matched pair of the tasteless would be my stainless synthetic .404 Jeffery M70 Classic paired with the .378 Wby CZ 550 Magnum.

Now that is total ignominy.

Actually PC, you and I both need to add a third to our proposed pairs, and we will have "The good, the bad, and the ugly."

You have proposed a Good (Mauser .404 Jeffery) and a Bad (.378 Weatherby anything), so you just need an Ugly. May I suggest a stainless and synthetic something or other?

Problem is, I already have the Bad (.378 CZ) and the Ugly (SS .404 Jeffery M70), but it will be a struggle to get one of the Good, for a tasteless bloke such as meself.

RIP and PC,

Neither of you blokes can come even close to the Wby Safari Custom Classic I bought.

Quarter rib, barrel band sling swivel, barrel band front sight, classic stock, oil finish, 375 H&H and a Made in Japan Weatherby

Mike

My Good, Bad, and Ugly, then I quit building and go hunting:

Good:
Dakota 76 African action
Dan Lilja No.6 sporter stainless fluted
Synthetic stock of ??? make
.375/.338 Lapua (9.5mm Tornado)

Bad:
CZ 550 Magnum Safari .375 H&H rechambered to .378 Wby and installed in a Weatherby Mark V Custom Shop stock rebuilt to fit (Bondo and or epoxy) in Weatherby Woodland/Green Camo. (Yeah, I'm bad.)

Ugly:
Stainless Winchester M70 300 RUM action
McGowen 10" twist stainless 24" barrel, No.5 contour, with NECG banded hooded front ramp and H&H moon bead.
.404 Jeffery
Brown Precision standard fiberglass stock with Africa Map on buttstock in JB Weld "overlay."
(so Ugly it is cute), and sling studs on tip of forearm and butt.

The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly.

Now I ride off into the sunset on a donkey, blowing the ocarina on cue with the music of Ennio Moricone rising to climactic volume, then fading away ... as my ass disappears over the western horizon. Hee haw!

Edited to insert the .404 Jeffery that I forgot to specify.

Ron,

I have just got off the phone from Kevin Nunes in Wby Custom about done up Crown Customs etc in 378.

I did not mention DGR drop box 375 Wby as you has appeared to have lost interest.

I will speaking to him again in another couple of day, do you want me to ask about 375 Wby DGRs and drop boxes etc.

The 378 on the CZ deal is real bad. In fact it ranks with doing a 404 on the upgraded Crown Custom

I wonder if anyone has ever asked Wby to do a Crown Custom in 9.3 X 62

Have you already done the 375/338 Lapua or is that still in progress.

Mike

Mike,
Some really bad ideas there, thanks!
I think 3 Mark V's is enough for me.
I am really set on getting a Dakota 76 African for the Last African Sheep Rifle.

The .375 Lapua is still just some dummy cartridges, but the idea has finally solidified. I can even make it a switch barrel for the .423 Lapua/.423 Dakota if it ever materializes. I have already done 45 Lapua twice, on 2 CZ 550 Magnums, one a McGowen 12" twist 22" rebarrel and one a rechamber of a .458 WinMag (25" factory barrel).

The Bad CZ .378 Wby is a cloverleafer in the hogback and ArmTec stocks, but it will indeed be rebedded in a Weatherby Custom Shop Mark V stock with a 1.5" Pachmayr Triple Magnum pad.
Bondo/epoxy and touchup paint and it will be complete. The hole spacing on the CZ 550 Magnum and the Weatherby Mark V Magnum actions is the same.

If I can put a JB Weld map of Africa on a Brown Precision butt, then I can most assuredly do this .378 CZ done right ... or wrong ... however you want to look at it.

Now I shall ride off into the sunset on my donkey, playing the ocarina.

I invite you and any others to list your picks for The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly Big Bore rifle trio (starts at .375 here). But don't stop at just one trio. I've got several and will continue to play if anyone else wants to start the thread.

It will be a window into our souls.

I hope to see some Blasers listed as BAD and Ugly.

Start another thread please and let this one die a merciful death.

Cheers!

Rip,

the sunday best .404 and the cz .378 are just so wrong and tasteless that one should do it !!

Mike my .404 will have the thumb cut it is 1909 dwm.

I am dilemma I love the cz's and I also love the ballistics of the .378.......I know it's tasteless but it maybe something I go for one day, good ballistics on MY favourite platform would make me happy and it would be a great lon rage outfit on the N.S.W plains.

What speeds could one get that 235 gr speer going out of the .378 weatherby ??

I also reckon the .416 Rigby with a 300 gr bullet would also be a falt shooting round ??

Maybe as flat shooting as .378 ??

PC,
I'd say it could be for some load comparisons, but as you have essentially the same case capacity for both, the skinnier calibre will always win out velocity wise for bullets of the same SD.

Karl.

PC,

Here is a general rule for you to work with.

In calibres 270, 308, 338, 375, 416, 458 and 510 the percentage difference between each calibre change is about the same.

On a given case size, if you neck up one calibre, you will gain about 150 f/s with the same bullet. But you will lose about 150 f/s for the same sectional density.

For bullets that are a scale of each other, for example a 270 grain 375 scales up to abiut 37o grains in 416, you lose about 300 f/s with equal scale bullets when you come up one calibre.

Scaling is important because that guides the bullet weight range where accuracy is most likely to be found. For example, a 55 grain 224 has the same sectional density as a 285 grain 50 calibre. Obviously tying to make a 285 grain soitzer in 50 calibre has problems. Of course if we come the other way a 750 grain bullet in 50 calibe has the same sectional desnity as a 145 grain 224, which would be like a piece of wire

Also, you gain about 1/4 of the percentage increase in case capacity as a percenatge incease in velocity. So the 378 is about 5% bigger than the 416 so that (all else being equal) gives it about 1.25% more velocity, say about 40 f/s in the 300 area, Then there is another 150 f/s extra for the same sectional desnity when you move from 416 down to 375, so that is about 180 f/s all up. However, if all else is equal the 378 will be able to get good accuracy with bullets of lower sectional density than the 416 calibre.

To out all that another way you ciuld say the 378 is a 270 Winchester Improved and the 416 Rigby is a 30/06. A 460 would equate to a 338/06 Improved.

With the 378 you have 225 Hornady spitzers. That is the same sectional density as about a 275 grain 416, which would be a difficult bullet to make as a spitzer and get to shoot.

Mike