I would be interested in hearing from those of you who have "improved" your .375 H&H arms.

This is something I am considering and I am curious if it really makes a difference regading case life.

I have also been told that throat erosion is reduced when using the improved cartridge.

All comments appreciated.

Regards,

~Holmes

Case life is good in both the improved and regular .375 H&H.

If I had it to do over I would have just bought a M-70 in the regular .375 H&H. What happened was that while this gun was being made for me a pre-64 came along at a low price. The old M-70 is far superior to the Sako action on the custom rifle. If I did not like the gunsmith who made up the rifle for me I would get rid of it.

I don't see much difference in performance.

An "Improved 375" is an oxymoron...can't be improved and if it's not powerfull enough then get a 416...

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

If you improve the cartridge case, and then load and burn *more* powder I don't see just how to reduce throat erosion.

I remember in the late 50s and early 60s when the venturi shoulder was supposed to be the magic way to everything better in wildcat cases, at least Controlled Cumbustion Cartridge Co. said so. It was really wide open back then before the hobbyist chronographs arrived and burst a lot of bubbles.

Dr. Atkinson has the prescription here in recommending a .400".

jim dodd

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"if you are to busy to
hunt, you are too busy."

Allow me to elaborate upon my query.

My interest is not based upon velocity gains. The H&H ballistics is fully satisfactory for my purposes. Most of my favourite loads are below published maximums as that is where my rifle seems most accurate. If I were to opt for the Improved version, I would be loading for accuracy once again, not maximum velocity. I have larger calibre arms if the need for a substantial power increase arrives.

As I use the .375 for the majority of my shooting and hunting, barrel life is a real issue. My M70 easily sees 1500 rounds annually. Many long-range high velocity aficionados have postulated the theory that the improved shoulder reduces powder erosion in the throat of the barrel. As I am not a gunsmith, I do not fully understand how or why this could be. Frankly, I was hoping one of you might be able to explain it to me!

Case life is another issue. I find it necessary to frequently trim my brass and the improved shoulder is said to reduce brass flow. This makes sense to me with neck sized hand loads.

The rifle is going in for a couple of sight modifications and I thought this might be a good time to ream the chamber if the Improved version really had any benefit with regard to throat life and case life.

Regards,

~Holmes

I don't think there is anything to shoulder shape and erosion. There is a theory like that where the shoulder angle intersects with the neck or not. It's just a pipe dream to me.

With the large bore volume of the .375 I don't see any problem with erosion. Many military bbl's of .30 cal last over 10,000 rounds and at that count respond well to laping and go on for more.

I thought that PMVF pioneered the venturi shoulder and not CCC. I think Roy W. got his idea there.

I don't think those changes would gain you anything in terms of barrel life. In fact, they will more than likely cost you barrel life for previously stated reasons (burning more powder, etc.).

At this point I would be interested to know what your use of this particular rifle might be? Should it be non-DGR with potential for longer shots then it may be a desired change. Should it be DGR you may want to stay with the tapered case, etc., to aid in feeding, etc.

My 2 cents worth.

Reed

P.S. You may want to look elsewhere, non "Big Bores" forums/books, for some discussions on why the minimum taper, sharp shoulder is desirable for accuracy. There's no small coincidence that the PPC BR type cartridges are minimum taper with healthy shoulder angles...

As I recall PMVF were pioneers, but CCC did the horn tooting.

Of course that was a few years ago.

jim dodd

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"if you are to busy to
hunt, you are too busy."

quote:

---

Originally posted by Reed:
The decrease in body taper and a sharper shoulder might indeed net you the increase in case life and quite possibly an increase in accuracy as well. It will also help reduce case lengthening. I don't think anybody would dispute those "assumptions."

Agreed.

I don't think those changes would gain you anything in terms of barrel life. In fact, they will more than likely cost you barrel life for previously stated reasons (burning more powder, etc.).

This is the way it would seem to me also.

At this point I would be interested to know what your use of this particular rifle might be? Should it be non-DGR with potential for longer shots then it may be a desired change. Should it be DGR you may want to stay with the tapered case, etc., to aid in feeding, etc.

I use the rifle in the same manner many people use a 30.06; all purpose firearm. Antelope to moose. Coyotes and jackrabbits when they present themselves.

Thanks for your comments and suggestions, Reed.

~Holmes

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One of my older partners in crime, now gone to gunsmith heaven (it's really down, not up!!!) told me the reason Roy used the double radius on his cartridges was the reamers were harder to copy!

quote:

---

Originally posted by John Ricks:
Recoil, Recoil, Recoil, substantially more than a standard 375. We were getting 2775 ft/sec with 300 gr A-Frames. A 9 pound rifle is downright unpleasant to shoot off the bench. And, the high velocities obtained, especialy with 270 gr bullets, really makes bullet problems at close range a reality.

I am aware of these conditions. As I stated, my primary interest was extending case life and throat life. Increased velocity is not the target as I would simply load for a sweet spot around the original H&H levels.

My rifle weighs in at 10.5#. I brought it to this weight to make a comfortable weekly shooter out of it which it is.

One of my older partners in crime, now gone to gunsmith heaven (it's really down, not up!!!) told me the reason Roy used the double radius on his cartridges was the reamers were harder to copy!

---

An interesting anecdote. He was a clever one, eh?!

~Holmes

Back to the 375 AI, with your 10-1/2 pound rifle weight, recoil really will not be a problem. I look on this as a long range cartridge, and a properly set up rifle would make a supurb Elk and Plains game gun.

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Currently in Exile on the Beautiful Olympic Peninsula of Washington State.

My Warden sometimes allows me to respond to email. NEW Address is rifles@earthlink.net

***********Jail Flash*******
Web site under construction: http://home.earthlink.net/~rifles/

[This message has been edited by John Ricks (edited 03-03-2002).]

But clever in a technical sense. Hardly. The took the idea for the cartridge designs from the PMVF work. Powell and Miller were gunsmiths who had made rifles with (V)venturied (F)freebore chambers. So Roy W. just copied this idea without credit to Powell and Miller. The chamber reamers cost more to make but are not patented. Nor do they produce any benfit.

The freebore throats are old ideas from military developments. A freebored throat has problems and the benfit of higher velocity. No target cartridges are freebored.

But just to build a company like Weatherby did takes lots' of talent and effort and my hats off to him. He has also 100% pro gun as far as I can tell.

He did make popular diamond inlays and a gaudy look. There is a market for that.

Early Weatherby rifles had CRF but the Mark V got away from that. Having owned a .378 Weatherby I can tell you that you don't want one. They are clumsy, no CFR, freebored, velocity is too high for good bullet action and the MV-V action is a poor design. Mine was made by Sauer.

In summary the Weatherby co. has guns made that satisfy a nich market. Good for them.

I still wouldn't do it. The shallower angle gives very reliable feeding.

Don

I'm interested to see how the new 350 gr Woodleigh bullets preform at 2400 fps+ through the 375 IA.

Steve

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Every man dies, but not every man really lives!!

Still, it does kind of dwarf a 30-06.

And, I think that's the problem. It just is too darn efficent a cartridge, much like the 308, or 06.

It should well, LOOK a lot bigger for what it gets done. The 375 RUM is WAY sexier looking, hell, even the 300 RUM is sexier looking.

I was just reflecting upon your comments. You get a 220 grain bullet, at 3000 fps, and use it on coyotes????

Now, 300 Magnum guys heaviest bullet is about 220, with, maybe, the sierra 240 hpbt as the heaviest. Do they get these going at 3000fps? Don't know.

375 doesn't look like it takes that much powder, but, the ballistics are pretty scary, and, I would not want a four inch exit wound, from a 375 softpoint, anytime soon...

Anyway, how do those 220's work on coyotes?

I've got a guy around here, that fires at coyotes on a ranch. Wonder if he would test my 375 on one???

gs

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I love 45
santilli@singleaction45.com

[This message has been edited by 375hnh (edited 03-06-2002).]