I would like to see some discussion on this cartridge. Is it something to consider, or dead before getting started?

OK - after posting, I researched back and see the prior discussion.

My thought is that I'm going to wait for the 375 Ruger brass, then rethink a 40 cal project, even if it is a wildcat.

Regards,
KB

I'm guessing that everything from 30 to 500 is going to be tried with that brass, maybe even smaller.

John

In fact, I think that all by itself, that brass will start a new round of "wildcating"!

KB
I have a 400 H&H barrel on order for my Blaser R 93.
As I type this I have a "factory" round wth a 400 gr Woodleigh Soft in my "hot little hands".

I must say I like the looks of the round.
Long neck, sloping shoulder, it just looks African.

I really like the idea of a companion piece in 400 H&H to go with the 375 H&H but in fact the 400 really offers nothing over the 416 Rem mag and it's very pricey and bullets are not as available.

As a practical matter the Holland and Holland firm has a looser on their hands in my opinion. The cartridge seems to be reserved for their specific clientel and they live a bit higher on the hog than I do.

I'll have one finished sometime in October on a Model 30 Express. I suppose it's the over-40 caliber for the person who wants something different.

There are bullets from Woodleigh, Barnes, North Fork, GS Custom, Hawk, Hornady, plus any bullet siutable for the 41 Rem Mag pistol round. Lots of good cast bullets too.

The long neck makes for much smoother feeding than the abrupt shoulder of the 416 Rem or the 375 Weatherby. If H&H had been more on the ball, this would have precluded the need for the big Remington round.

Where can reloading dies for the 400 H&H be obtained? I'm assuming you are hand loading, because I don't know where factory ammo would be obtained either. How about some loading data too?

OK, I'll take a chance on a little controversy.
I look at the brass for the 404 Jeffery, and the 458 Lott, both cartridges seem popular on this forum. The 404 looks very similar to the 400 H&H - sloping shoulder, long neck, etc. The 458 Lott has a very long neck, because it has no shoulder. Although it must work OK, as it has for so many years, it seems to me the 404 brass may be disadvantaged re firm headspace on that small shoulder, and no belt to headspace on.

I mention all the above because I have read some discussion that the 400 H&H will stretch brass, etc. but I don't see print like that on the 404 or the 458 Lott, which in my estimation would do about the same to brass as the 400 would - whatever that is.

Furthermore, consider that the 375 H&H set the standard for so many years. It defined the medium bore, and still does. Yet I don't remember any complaints re stretched 375 brass, or the other so-called problems precieved/anticipated with the 400. I just don't think there would be much difference in the way the 400 would behave, re brass, compared to the 375 H&H, and as far as I could tell, the 375 works very well indeed.

And, there is some favorable discussion of the 450-400 Jeffery, which has a long tapered case without much shoulder, and a long neck too. I don't see the same complaints about it as some offered about the 400 H&H.

What do you think?

Thanks,
KB

The .404 Jeffery has an 8.5 degree shoulder but it is very adequate for headspacing since it is very broad and long in its expanse.

The body taper of the .404 Jeffery is a minimum one, a lot less than the body taper of the .416 Rigby.

Yes, the .404 Jeffery neck is too long by modern standards, but it surely grips a bullet securely, a good thing in a DGR.

That minimum body taper on the .404 Jeffery does a lot to minimize case stretching. Any case splits in a worn out .404 Jeffery case would probably be in the shoulder region, not at the head. That is much safer.

The .404 jeffery will need some neck trimming after several firings, but it is not inordinate.

The .416 Rigby 45 degree shoulder is really an excessive thing, but luckily doesn't cause too many problems for the careful handloader. 20 degree to 35 degree shoulders are ideal for any beltless/rimless cartridge in a bolt action, IMHO.

As for the .400 H&H: my pinky fingers refuse to extend when I am drinking tea, so I am disqualified from ownership.

I would much prefer the more powerful and abundant .416 Remington or .404 Jeffery over the .400 H&H.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
The .416 Rigby 45 degree shoulder is really an excessive thing, but luckily doesn't cause too many problems for the careful handloader. 20 degree to 35 degree shoulders are ideal for any beltless/rimless cartridge in a bolt action, IMHO.

As for the .400 H&H: my pinky fingers refuse to extend when I am drinking tea, so I am disqualified from ownership.

I would much prefer the more powerful and abundant .416 Remington or .404 Jeffery over the .400 H&H.

Thanks Rip,
Everything about the 416 Rigby is excessive to me, especially the action required to use it.

I wonder if the pinky finger thing is a requirement to proper use of the 375 as well. Maybe that explains my problem, and all this time I thought I just wasn't holding my mouth/lips correctly when I pulled the trigger. Perhaps I'll work on the finger too.

In my estimation, the comparison is between the 416 Rem and the 400 H&H. .416 bullets vs .411 bullets. Mag pressure vs milder pressure (whatever)

For the 9.3 mm and bigger, I have been thoroughly satisfied with 2300 fps.

Anyway, it's fun to compare.

Regards
KB

KB
I can fire my 450/400 3 1/4" several times with out them needing trimming.

The Quality Cartridge brass I have looks good.
While 416 bullets are more popular if you reload for the big stuff you will use premium bullets for sure. There are good premium bullets in .411

I will load 400gr Woodleigh Softs and Solids, and the North Fork 360 gr for the big stuff.

For lessor game at longer range the 300gr North Fork will fit the bill. It will not fail up close and will still expand at a distance.

For plinking loads, and shooting deer and pigs the 300gr Hornady pointed 405 Winchester bullet at @2225fps [light recoil] will do.

Then there are always cast bullets.

Barnes makes .411 bullets, or at least they did.
Hornady will no doubt make softs and solids for their 450/400 3" project.

What more could you need.

CH4D has dies for the 400 H&H. They can be had from others, too. The 400 certainly has a long neck like the 404.

Loading data is in Quickload. I could get several powders to reach 2350 (design velocity)with 400 gr bullets but I can't confirm any until I get mine done and shoot it. I'll use 375 brass initially because I have a good supply but Quality sells the right brass if you ever get the desire to go where it is needed.

The purpose of the round was to offer H&H bolt gun buyers a proprietary 40 cal round and while they were at it, match the vernerable 450-400 in performance, not the 416 Rem. Holland's will build one of those for you, too.

Like I said, it's just something different, not necessarily better.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:

What more could you need?

Perhaps a pinky load.

Barnes still shows the 300gr .411, but they seem to be upgrading all the old style to the TSX. They dropped the .411 350X gr first, so hopefully it will reappear as a TSX.

I have two donar actions, one which will work with the 400 H&H, and the other choice is to wait for the 375 Ruger brass and wildcat that into a .411 Ruger which will work perfectly in the other action I have. Fortunately, I don't have to hurry on this one. I have plenty of projects in line.

I also keep thinking the 450-400 NE 3" would be a good choice for fun in an Encore barrel.

KB

Yep,
Pinky loads. Those 450/400 NE 3-1/4" cases (corrected my typo) will not need trimming much because they are so low pressure in a double. I suspect if hot loaded in a Ruger No.1 they might need more trimming, just as the .458 Lott.

RIP,

Continue discussing the 450-400.

Moved to that thread.

KB