Holland and Holland indicated earlu in the development of the 400 and the 465 H&H that they would not be proprietary. Do any of you guys know the final word on this? How does it compare to the 416 rem.?

Any input is appreciated. Mostly interested in the 400.

Adrian

I think I may be the only member that acually has a 400 H&H (or at least will admit it). It is a fine round, no better or worse than the 416s performance-wise until you get into the 416 Weatherby (now there's another answer to a quewstion never asked). I find it easier to shoot than the 416 Remington. The only 416 Rigby I've shot was substantially heavier than my 400 so I can't make a comparison. But a 400 gr bullet at 2300 plus or minus is plenty medicine for any hunting you could desire.

I doubt anyone other than custom makers and H&H will ever build rifles for it. And I doubt any other ammo companies (except the small customs) will produce loaded rounds. But there are several sources of appropriate bullets and Quality Ctg makes the brass. Or you can resize any 375 H&H-based case. 416 Rem seems the easiest choice for that.

I hate to be the negative poster here, but from what I have seen, H&H essentially claims to be violating the laws of physics in achieving essentially identical velocity to the .416 Rem and at mystically lower pressure from basically the same case. Doubtful, to say the least. Obviously, if one wants lower pressure with a roughly .40 cal bullet out of either a .416 or a .400 rifle, one can simply download it to .404 Jeffery velocities and be done with it. As an aside, why have we not been hearing about pressure problems from the .375 for all these decades? Or pressure problems from the .300 Win? Or....well, you get my point. Someone is trying to sell rifles with the .400 H&H and not much else.

The one perhaps significant advantage that the .400 H&H will likely have in this game is the ability to fire .41 cal pistol bullets for practice. Aside from that, it's essentially redundant.

JMHO

But it has a really cool sounding name.

It doesn't claim to match the 416 Rem foot for foot at lower pressure. Maybe some gunwriters tried to make that claim but H&H doesn't. Their only claim is to offer H&H clients a magazine rifle with similar ballistics to their much beloved doubles in 450/400 NE. Why would they want to do that with a cartridge named Winchester or Remington? A Jeffery in an H&H built rifle? Surely you jest!

Useable capacity of the 416 is 87 grains of water, useable capacity of the 400 is 84. That difference is almost pointless when you consider the design of different brands of brass or even different lots of the same brand can zero out the difference.

Last, it has a nice sloping shoulder for easy feeding and true to H&H philosophy, easy extraction. Conservative design from conservative Brits; what else would one expect?

I chose it because I had a 416 Remington already, didn't want the difficulty of building a Rigby on the action I had and the 416 Taylor was out because the action would cycle 375 length rounds. Last but not least, I bought the reamer for $50.00. Too good to turn down.

The rifle weighs about 8.5 lbs scoped and empty. It is comfortable to shoot other than the steel butt plate which is scheduled to be replaced.

Yeah it could be considered redundant but that can be said ad infinitum about most sporting ammunition. Nothing of great value was obtained after the 7x57 and the 450 NE if you want to go down that road.

The unavoidable negative will be the absolute lack of affordable factory ammo. Kynoch will likey be the only major-name maker and custom loaders are not inexpensive, either. So it is pretty much a handloader's proposition, unless money is no object.

Thanks for the input guys. I already have a 375, 404, and 416 rem. and also have a mod 70 in 7 stw which is not very african and I'm really into all things african.

Since hunting is what I do for fun and the 458 Lotts and up are not very much fun,(at least for me) the 400 H&H came to mind. With maybe a Shilen barrel, a D'arcy Echols stock, and probably no iron sights. Just an all weather using rifle.

Adrian,

Tigger,


Bring that 400H&H to the next Big Bore shoot, please. I'll be glad to buy a couple rounds from you for my collection. I would like to see how it shoots as compared to the 10.75x68 I hope to have completed by then.

Andy

Adrian,

You guys must have some big deer in Tennille-does kaolin make them grow bigger? Seriously, I would like to meet up some time and check out your 404 and 416. I have a 375 and a 9.3x62 and am thinking about a larger rifle in the near future.

mrfudd,

Actually, the big deer in this area use kaolin in some way to form a cloaking device or system. So far it seems to be pretty effective.

I do plan to take the 404 to the Selway in september(Idaho). They have the early season for elk and africa has faded into the horizon for this year and maybe next year as well.

We have hunted buff four times. Two trips to Zambia near Kafue Park. The other two safaris were to Tanzania to hunt the Selous which turned out to be the best hunting fields I have ever experienced. As you probably know, many of the best dangerous game venues have little else to offer. The Selous is alive with all manner of other animals. Two buff were taken with the 416 and two with a 375 which is very adequate. Many far better hunters than I have found the 9.3X 62 acceptable as well.

I have to come to Augusta to find a good gun shop. We'll have to visit.

Cheers, Adrian

You won't find a good gun shop in Augusta ( I haven't anyway). The best I have found locally is the Gun Rack in Aiken, SC. The owner is a long time gunsmith and was a pilot in WWII. He has some amazing stuff in his office. They are only open Monday_Friday and close at 5. He always has a selection of Euro sporters, a few pre-64 Winchesters.

I'm off to Zim in late October for my first dangerous game. I have booked a tuskless hunt with Charlton McCallum and will be hunting with Alan Shearing. I have taken 2 plains game hunts in Namibia and can't wait for this new adventure.