What will be the optimal bullet weight and speed for a 45 cal (large game hunting)?
I base my question on the well known issue between the 30-06 and 300WM.
In a 3006, a 180 gr oryx bullet travels 2700fps with 58 grain load.
In a 300WM, a 180 gr oryx travels only 10% faster with a 22% larger load (72 grains)...

My opinion is, that higher speed is not nessarily the same increase in efficiency...
where does it all end???

//M

.458 bullet. What weight? And then there's the whole issue of "hard" or "soft" bullets. And what are we shooting at? What sort of distances?

Locally the game is Roosevelt Elk and the bullet is 350 gr. flat nose, usually Hornady or Speer. Nothing fancy or complicated, just a large diameter, heavy bullet (as compared to the .308 stuff, or the 7mm, .270 stuff).

The elk are taken in heavily wooded areas at ranges well under 100 yds. Scopes used are set at the 1x or 1.5x power -- faster than iron sights, but virtually no magnification.

And so the caliber runs 45-70 Govt. velocities in the 1800 fps range. This gives a trajectory like the arc in a rainbow, but works fine at the standard ranges, delivers the energy needed for the game taken in heavily wooded areas.

Ballistics-wise, increased velocity in a large bullet takes proportinately more charge because of all the physics involved in propelling the bullet through air.

Somewhere there are listings about how much energy (foot lbs) various game require for clean kills. But then we're going to get into discussions about energy versus bullet diameter and weight.

And it never ends! That's why we have forums, and gun shops!

I have had realy good luck with my 2 45 call rifles. I have found that as said earlier that faster is not always better. I have a Marlin Guide gun in 45-70. I use 300 grain Barnes X pushed to 1930 fps. The gun can handle faster loads but I have found that accuracy drops off.

My second gun in 45 call is my Rem M700 in 458 Win Mag. I use 500 grain X and solids pushed to 2030. Tyhe max load bring the fps up to just over 2100, but once again accuracy is reduced. Both loads are pushed with R7, I can look up the exact weights if anyone is interested.

I think you get away with a little using a Barnes as the all copper bullet is longer to make up for copper being lighter. The bullet of the same weight with lead is shorter and had less length and less sectional density. I have found that not only do the Barnes penetrate better than other bullets but the tend to fly better. ( Think about it, what has beter aerodynamics, a rock or a spear that weigh the same???) I work up loads from the minimum charge ontill I get what I want and I stop in the middle of the bell curve, where the rifle and bullet are most accurate. It always amazes me the guys that just load MAX and forget it thinking "MORE POWER & SPEED = BETTER" I have not had a rifle yet that shoots its best with a max load. Shot placement kills not the extra 30 fps you get from a max load.

Just my 2c

wretched excess is what life is all about! I sat in Elmer Keith's living room one afternoon looking at a rifle and remember asking if the cartridge wasn't pretty inefficient? He said "efficiency my ass son, give me horsepower!". This is horsepower country...the deal is getting a larger case so you can get more powder in and shoot a heavier bullet faster. Ask Roy Weatherby about his competition with PO Ackley that started about 1930-?
Ackley pushed efficient, Weatherby pushed speed; and we all know which one owned a multi million $$$ a year business and went to Africa and the rest of the world and hunted everything.

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by VKG10:
What will be the optimal bullet weight and speed for a 45 cal (large game hunting)?

500 grain bullet at 2150 to 2400 fps

450 grain bullet at 2300 to 2400 fps

550 grain bullet at 2100 to 2300 fps

If you are talking about elephants and cape buffalo, I can state that 450 to 500 grain bullets at 2050 to 2200fps will do all that is necessary.

They work prety good on giraffe, eland, and wildebeest as well.

PS .408 diameter 400gr bullets and 9,3 286 gr bullets do an excellent good job on the same animals.

Thank you very much for your replies..


//M