My dad is considering building a .400 Whelan on a Springfield action (hoping Elmer would approve/recognize ).
He is looking for information about bore diameter, dies, reamers, and loading data.
He thinks he can get dies from RCBS, but isn't sure.
Thanks in advance!
------------------ It is not enough to fight for natural land and the west; it is even more important to enjoy it. While you can. While it's still there. So get out there and hunt and fish and mess around with your friends...Enjoy yourselves, keep your brain in your head and your head firmly attached to the body, the body active and alive, and I promise you this much: I promise you this one sweet victory over our enemies, over those deskbound men with their hearts in a safe-deposit box and their eyes hypnotized by desk calculators. I promise you this: you will outlive the bastards.
- Edward Abbey
Posts: 580 | Location: Mesa, AZ | Registered: 11 May 2001
I have one of the recent Ruger 35 Whelens that will put three shots under a penny with Federal Premium TBBC's. It is about my favorite gun. It is also about my ugliest!
I'm definately not qualified to make this next statement, but I will anyway . I believe that he might run into headspace problems due to the 400 Whelen's very slight shoulder. There are other people on this forum that know much more than I and I'm sure they will chime in.
I knew a man that had a 400 whelen and had tremendous problems with headspace. He went to an improved version and he said it really fixed things. You might check into an improved version.
P.O. Ackley in his two volume set on reloading recommended against the .400 Whelen for that very reason. He said that the .375 was as big as could practically be done in the Whelen configuration. Now with the Improved, blown-out shoulders it might not be so bad but I honestly believe that Elmer would have had very kind things to say to your dad if he changed his mind to a 9.3x62.
Posts: 2690 | Location: Lakewood, CA. USA | Registered: 07 January 2001
I certainly hope that no-one mistakes me for someone who knows what the heck he is talking about. It was blind ass luck that I got it right about the shoulder/headspace problem.
The 400 Whelen headspace problems were created by an incorrect FL die that set the shoulder back to .441 from .458 that the 400 Whelen had. This created the excessive headspace problem and allowed the case to move forward in the chamber. The rest is history.
I've expanded 35 Whelen brass up using a .424 expander ball and then formed them to crush fit in my .411 Hawk. I can tell you it takes considerable force in my rockchucker to move the shoulder just a bit when trying to get the case to crush fit the chamber.
I have had no problems with headspace in my .411 Hawk and I was a beginning reloader when I built this gun. I don't believe you can move the shoulder of this case with a spring loaded firing pin meant to dent a primer if you have crush fit it to the chamber.
I've gotten excellent accuracy and power from a load of H4895 pushing a 325 grain bullet at 2450 fps. I've just picked up some 300 grain Northfork bullets and will be working up loads that equal a 375 H&H around 2500 fps with a lot less powder and recoil.
Z-Hat has built quite a few of these guns and has many happy shooters including myself you can check with to answer any questions you may have about the 411 Hawk (400 Whelen).
Go for it and have fun.
Posts: 767 | Location: U.S.A. | Registered: 08 March 2001
A fascinating thread... I did not know about the .411 Hawk, but I found the .416-06 JDJ in CoW. About 10-20 years ago, there was a long and scholarly magazine article in the German gun magazine DWJ (by Helmut Eller) on the .400 Brown-Whelen - apparently an improved version. Eller greatly extolled its virtues.
As to Whelen, he does not seem very original. The .35 Whelen appears like a not-too-inspired copy of the fine 9 x 63 M/88, and the .400 Whelen finds it predecessor in the Austrian 10,75 x 57.
It is always comforting to see there was one European round before :-)... but seriously, the latter one seems like a round worthy of some resurrection.
Regards, Carcano
Posts: 2452 | Location: Old Europe | Registered: 23 June 2001
I think Precision Shooting had an article in the last few years on the 400 Whelen, and mentioned the same shoulder issue the Snapper referred to above.
It seems that the author had some original tools that belonged to Whelen or something like that. I couldn't find the particular issue, but if you call Precision Shooting, they might be able to put you on a copy of it.
With respect to Z-Hat: they converted a modern 1895 Winchester to 375 Hawk, and I thought it was a fine job. Fred was good to work with on the project.
The Wolfe Publishing "Big Bores" book has an article on the 400 Brown Whelen and goes into the headspacing issues with the original and modified case. Sounds like the improved case, which is similar I guess to the Hawk, has enough shoulder to headspace. Good luck.
Dad chose .338-06 AI for the Springfield action mostly because it seemed to be a minor ballistic sin to open up the action for a belted magnum. AND for punch I am building a 9.3x64 on a nice commercial Mauser action instead of a .400 Whelan because I was worried that the .400 would not reach far enough for the places I hunt.
"Properly loaded, however, this cartridge (400 Whelen) is a very excellent killer for heavy game at medium and long ranges up to about 400 yards" stated Colonel Whelen.
This passage was taken from the article 400 Brown Whelen by John Kronfeld.
How far do you want to shoot?
Snapper
Posts: 767 | Location: U.S.A. | Registered: 08 March 2001
It doesn't take much of a shoulder to headspace on and I suspect the Improved version will do just fine...
I think I would use the 338 case and let it go at that...Load it down if you want 400 Whelen balistics..better yet do a 416 Taylor and load it down and have the advantage of cheap and easy to find bullets, bigger cross section and just more to play with.
if one of you has ballistic data for the Austrian 10,75 x 57 (the European factory round predecessor of the .400 Whelen), I would much appreciate it. I only know the short entry in Cartridges of the World.
Regards and thanks, Carcano carcano91@hotmail.com
Posts: 2452 | Location: Old Europe | Registered: 23 June 2001
It is listed as a .424 bullet in a case that is 2.24 inched long with a base of .468 and OAL of 3.05. That case would be smaller than the '06 case. One load pushing a 350 grain bullet at 1950 fps was the FL load.
Snapper
Posts: 767 | Location: U.S.A. | Registered: 08 March 2001
I'd recommend that you listen to Mr. Atkinson. The .416 Taylor (.458 WM necked down to .416) is a superb cartridge and brass can easily be formed simply by running .458 cases through a .416 die. It works like a champ through standard length actions and, in my experience, is an outstanding performer with both full power and reduced loads.
). 
