was there another caliber that the 458 win mag was designed from?

The brass is unique and is the parent of the .338 Win mag case.

Ballistacly, it was originally designed to mirror the .450 N.E. In reality, it is a little short, but not by much.

John

The 458Win was based on a shortened 300/375H&H.

i new the 458 spawned the 338,by necking it down to .338 and both are the same lenght, thanks big bore.

thanks fla3006,i thought it was an improved 375/300 h&h

Forrest is right...
the HH belted mag is the parent case of nearly all belted small arms cases... excluding the big weartherby cases which is the rigby case+belt and the 224 weatherby, which is a 30-06 case with a scraped up belt.

the two parents of 90% of the modern bolt gun cases are the HH magnum (.532) and the 8x57 (.473) mauser. Next are the 404, the 9,3x64, and the rigby cases.... that should cover about 98.5% of the bolt gun cases

jeffe

The .458 was Winchesters attempt to enter into the " African" equation. Whatts and a few others pleaded with big reds' r&d dept to make the case longer to afford more room for the 505 grn. soft point. They pointed out the British cases atributes but to no avail, Winchester wanted a short action to keep the cost down. After some hunters reported squib load problems due to compresed loads and notorious mis handling of guns and ammo, and f.m.j rounds sold as "solids. The round started to get a bad name in certin circles. Along came Jack Lott and after a f.m.j. failed to penetrate the shoulder of a fair sized buff, followed by two shoddy hits, he made the Lott, what the Win. should have been from day one. I have not had any failures with the Win. but then i have only had a decade or so of experience with it. Some one here probably has more and would like to expound on its short comings or strenghts. Charlie

I was a round that was developed before the powders that were needed to make it work reliably were developed. Modern powders make it perform like it was suposed to when conceived.

They really should have used the full length case in 1956. But today with good powder choice it will perform to the std of 500 grains at 2150.

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Forrest is right...
the HH belted mag is the parent case of nearly all belted small arms cases... excluding the big weartherby cases which is the rigby case+belt and the 224 weatherby, which is a 30-06 case with a scraped up belt.
jeffe

Ahhh.... No... it isn't the 224Wby, but rather the the 240 Weatherby is the one with the "scraped up" belt on a 30-06 case.

the 224Wby is smaller and is more like a necked down and scraped up 25Rem. (Don't hold me to this, I've got 50 224wby cases but haven't actually compared them closely to anything else).

AllanD

The .458 win was a part of a triplet of cartridges: .458 win, .338 win, and .264 win mags. All were based on a cut-down .375H&H. Later, Remington added the 7mm rem mag on the same case/case length. Following the Weatherby cartridgtes, the Winchester line up might be considered a first foray into the "short magnum" concept. The .264 is the only of the three that didn't catch on...

Dan

quote:

Originally posted by DanEP:
The .458 win was a part of a triplet of cartridges: .458 win, .338 win, and .264 win mags. All were based on a cut-down .375H&H.
Dan

Don't forget teh 300 Win Mag!

Tim

That .375 H&H is one HELLUVA cartridge, isn't it?

quote:

the two parents of 90% of the modern bolt gun cases are the HH magnum (.532) and the 8x57 (.473) mauser. Next are the 404, the 9,3x64, and the rigby cases.... that should cover about 98.5% of the bolt gun cases

There are a few notable exceptions worth mentioning, the 6.5x55 (.480), the 303 British (.530), the .223 Rem ( .375 ) and I suppose the Russian 7.62 ( .445 ) fits into that statement. The last two I wouldn't drop into the "bolt gun category normally except the .223 Militarty/police and varmit rigs have really come into there own, and the Russian case is used in 6mm benchrest rifles that are about the most accurate rifles on the planet.