Hello Overkill I know nothing of your question,but have asked elsewhere and still haven't gotten response, are Swedes as gun crazed as Texans? It sure seems so. How old are you? I tend to like to know that just for the frame of reference. I pretty sure it not in your profile i think I checked, sorry if I missed. I enjoy the threads you generate, they can be long, interesting, and funny. Thanks rob the guy who ain't thinking too clearly lately
Saeed's right gents. Perhaps they were referancing the 450 Ackley Improved Magnum, which is the 375 H & H case opened up to 458 and given the Ackley shoulder (although the shoulder is quite small). I have one, ballistics are basically a 500 gr bullet at 2400 fps. Hope this helps. - Dan
Posts: 5285 | Location: Alberta | Registered: 05 October 2001
quote:Originally posted by Socrates: Neat thing about the AI is you can fire Win 458 mag, 458 Lott, and the AI gives slightly better velocity then the lott.
Same ream out a 458 CZ, and you are ready to go.(am I wrong on the above? Do you have to take the 375 or 416 rebarrel, and reream the chamber???)
s
Socrates, I don't think it would be a good idea to fire 458 Win Mag cartridges in a 450 AI magnum, as the 450AI is a shouldered round, and is a full length 375 H&H case! The 458 Lott can be fired in the AI chamber,as it is long enough to reach into the neck of the chamber,to hold it aligned with the bore. It fire forms the cases to the AI configuration, however! The 458 Win Mag bullet would hit the shoulder of the chamber in most cases, damaging the chamber of the rifle!
Posts: 14634 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: 08 June 2000
Mike, how do they get the shoulder on that little 458 case? Neck up then back down to form a false shoulder, and then fireform? I'm curious (I'd also like to see one, no slur intended, just trying to learn more). - Dan
Posts: 5285 | Location: Alberta | Registered: 05 October 2001
Firing a 458 Win in a 458 AI will be the same as firing a 458 Lott in a 450 Ackley. A shoulder forms because the Ackley chamber is bigger in diameter at the shoulder area of the chamber. I think the 450 Ackley 458 AI are about .506" or so in diameter at the shoulder whereas the 458 Win and Lott are about .485" or so at the same point.
Actually, the relationship between the 577 Nitro and 585 Nyati is the same sort of thing.
Mike
[ 08-11-2002, 22:46: Message edited by: Mike375 ]
Posts: 7206 | Location: Sydney, Australia | Registered: 22 May 2002
Come to think about some more I went into my crap, and dug out some empty case! I seems the 458 Win Mag WOULD let the bullet line up on the bore because of the bullet's strieght sides resting in the neck area of the chamber. Still I believe this would allow a lot of hot gas the go around the mouth of the Win Mag case, and back into the body of chamber area. This wouldn't happen with the Lott, because the case it's self would fill the neck area of the chamber. Could be wrong on both counts, it wouldn't be the first time! WELL, maybe real close to the first time!
Posts: 14634 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: 08 June 2000
quote: Socrates, I don't think it would be a good idea to fire 458 Win Mag cartridges in a 450 AI magnum, as the 450AI is a shouldered round, and is a full length 375 H&H case! The 458 Lott can be fired in the AI chamber,as it is long enough to reach into the neck of the chamber,to hold it aligned with the bore. It fire forms the cases to the AI configuration, however! The 458 Win Mag bullet would hit the shoulder of the chamber in most cases, damaging the chamber of the rifle!
As posted below, in a pinch, and apparently for reduced loads, you can use the 458, and, I think a bunch of that has to do with the fact that both cases are belted...
Anyway, I'm more intrested in the second part of the question. Can you take a 458 CZ 550, and ream it out to the AI?
I think you can, since the action is the same length on both the 375 and the 458, and, I think the bolt face is the same as well.
Guy who suggested this, when I was intrested in a 458 Lott, said you got better ballistics, and powder efficency out of the AI then the Lott, and you could still use the Lott ammunition.
He loved his, using reduced rounds for all kinds of fun stuff. s
Posts: 1805 | Location: American Athens, Greece | Registered: 24 November 2001
Socrates, as long as you're reaming it out anyway, go the whole route and ream to 450 ackley. You can fire all the rest in a pinch, the action will take it (it's based on the 375 length cases) and you get an honest 2400 fps with 500 gr bullets, without excessive pressures. Just a thought. - Dan
Posts: 5285 | Location: Alberta | Registered: 05 October 2001
Socrates - you can use 375 hnh, 8mm rem mag or 416 rem mag cases to form 450 Ackley - try to stay consistent with the case choice; a previous post had numerous ideas on how to form the case to 450 AI - much more fun than a 458 winnie.
Posts: 1300 | Location: Alaska.USA | Registered: 15 January 2002
Or use the 45 basic brass from Hornady. A touch longer, and what Ackley had in mind in the first place. It's not always available though, at which point any of the full length cases based on the H & H case will work. Obviously, the closer you are to the required neck size, the easier it will be. - Dan
Posts: 5285 | Location: Alberta | Registered: 05 October 2001
I have a CZ 602 in 450 ack. The best I have done so far is 2300 fps with 500 woodlieghs. This was with a 22in barrel.I used 416 rem brass,also a-square brass.The remington brass was much better the a-square brass spilt at the neck on the second load.I used RL-15 and FED. 215M primers.You can shoot 458 lott and it will fire form. You can also fire 458 win. in the rifle but the brass is junk and you need to clean the chamber when you fire 458 lott or winchester.At first I was not happy I wanted 2400 fps with 500 grainers, then I learned a little more and now I am very happy with the round and the gun.
Ed 475, Try WW 748 powder starting with 94 grains and working up to 98. I think you will find your velocity will be better plus your barrel temperature will be lower. I got 2400 with the stock 602 barrel with WW 748 powder with very good accuracy and I think that the three inch difference shouldn't amount to 150 fps. It should leave you close to 2350 fps with the 22 inch barrel.
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