What would be the best bullet for big bear backup? Im saying if it had to go thru a 3 inch tree and not glance off, or causing it to tumble or over expand upon impact pennetration into a tough bear.. I suspect the easy answer would be a solid, i would prefer a controled expansion bullet since bear an not that tough when going against the .458.. would a 500 grain hornady soft nose ib work well? I recently bought a box of 450 grain barns tsx, but could the lenght could be a detriment when lenght/ twist/ tumbleing is involved in a brush or glancing situation with bone?.. What brings this up is at a gunstore yesterday a salesman said he heard of a barns tsx shot from a 25-06 not opening on a deer, and not pennetrating thru, suggesting tumbleling.. Has anone seen problems with this long bullet tumbling suggesting a faster twist may be nessesary for the tsx in thier heavier bullets in relation to caliber? I guess it would just be easier to ask, What bullet would you recomend for .458 backup in a large bear?... thanks dave

I'd go with the 450 grn. TSX's! They certainly do shoot well in my .458!

No experience with bears, but 500gr Woodleigh softs perform fine in a 458wm. No tumbling issues with 450gr copper solids either, so the length of the North Fork 450gr flat nose solid is fine.

I would think that a 450gr North Fork soft would be excellent on bear, or a 400gr Trophy Bonded soft. With a 400, you have a pretty flat trejectory if it matters to you.

JPK

If mono bullets are your concern, how about Swift A Ftames or Noth Forks? 400gr or 450gr should do just fine, with greater velocity than 500s.

Keith

I have both 400 and 450 SAFs and load these over AA-2230 in my .458WM. Given the relatively light skeletal structure of Grizzlies, even with the fur and dense muscular/shouler bone structure, I feel these will perform better than monolithic bullets will.

I am increasingly enthusiastic about the SAF and the .458WM as a stopper for backing my buddies in their quests for a trophy Grizzly, although I most often use my custom P-64-.375H&H "shorty" when in Grizzly country, working solo or fishing when the Kokanee are running.

Once I have this .458 finished with better irons, a Weibe 4+1 box and some sort of decent synthetic stock, I will likely jut use it and do not expect that any Grizzly will "walk away" from a center chest or shoulder hit.

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:
Given the relatively light skeletal structure of Grizzlies, even with the fur and dense muscular/shouler bone structure,

Once I have this .458 finished with better irons, a Weibe 4+1 box and some sort of decent synthetic stock,

Light compared to what? I once saw a skeleton of a brown bear killed by a hunter, who skinned and then left it on the beach above tide line. It was picked clean in a matter of days by ravens and mostly a horde of eagles, who had their bellies so full they just hung around on low branches or hopped around on the ground, apparantly not interested in flying much with their belly cargo. Those bones didn't look light to me.

What action are you using for your project, what stock?

KB

I tried a few through the Brush shots on game in Africa with .416's and .470's and was surprised by how much bullet deflection even small trees provide. IF I HAD to do it then I think the only answer is a Flat Nose brass solid of 500grs or more. All our penetration tests confirm that these bullets will go straight through most medium and deform the least. Remember, once deformation of a bullet nose starts, thats the end of penetration. I've made some FN .600 750gr bulllets that have shot through 24 inches of oak tree and still gone straight. A .470NE 500gr FN made by Fritz 454 (Bridger) shot through a bull Ele broadside and was found sticking out the shoulder. It could have been reloaded and shot again. -Rob

Woodleigh 500 gr Protected Point.

I was reading woodlieghs websight and they said soft nose for first shot, solid for followup, sounds good to me.. dave

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:
Given the relatively light skeletal structure of Grizzlies, even with the fur and dense muscular/shouler bone structure,

Once I have this .458 finished with better irons, a Weibe 4+1 box and some sort of decent synthetic stock,

Light compared to what? I once saw a skeleton of a brown bear killed by a hunter, who skinned and then left it on the beach above tide line. It was picked clean in a matter of days by ravens and mostly a horde of eagles, who had their bellies so full they just hung around on low branches or hopped around on the ground, apparantly not interested in flying much with their belly cargo. Those bones didn't look light to me.

What action are you using for your project, what stock?

KB

Compared with other large BC game such as Moose. Bears have pretty light ribs, etc., when measured against large herbivores.

My project is simply a 1964 vintage Browning Safari, which some genius put a huge muzzle brake on and trimmed back the front rsmp to do so. This looks like "hell struck with a club" as my old Pop used to say and I like these rifles for serious bush work, so, some mods are in order.

I have "almost" enough rifles, just scored another Brno 22H in 7mm Mauser which will become a .280 Rem. and am getting a P-64 short mag. action and sts. Classic barrel from a buddy to build a "beater" .338WM with. The .458 and .338 will have 23" tubes and are for use if bad weather happens when hunting with my Dakota .338 which also has this length and I tend to prefer it.

I KNOW that nobody really NEEDS a .458WM in BC and have spent mucho time on the coast living solo in remote Grizzly country...I just love mucking about with rifles!!! Like every other gunaholic here!

If you want to shoot through trees, solids are the only option. Even they will deflect, depending on angles, glancing blows, etc. Solids probably not best option on stopping a bear absent a tree. But I've never shot a bear.

Guys,

Deflection of any bullet in the brush is a fact of life. It has been demonstrated that anything ... including a .50 BMG ... will deflect.

Minimizing it is the best you can do.

Heavy bullet moving relatively slow is a good start. A round or flat nose adds some ... but it isn't a cure all and never will be.

I,ve said it before and I suppose I,ll have to say it again ,,, Brown bears arn,t Elephants ....... For me the best bullet is the 300 gr Barnes TSX .. And possibly the 315 gr GS HV .....The 300,s fly out of my 458 @ 2700 fps and they really kill stuff . kind of rough on deer tho .......For everyone else I would say the 350 gr TSX @ 2500 fps .. It doesn,t kill any slower that I can tell , .. The guy to ask is 458 Win ... He has prolly used every half decent .458 bullet there is on bears ......