Gent's,

I've come into a quantity of 500 gr swaged lead bullets that I think might make some fun reduced loads in my ZKK 602. However, I have had little joy in finding inforamtion on using Trail Boss in the Lott. Hornady's web site lists info for the 458WM only.

Does anyone have any experience or insight to using Trail Boss in this situation?

Thanks.

Have you looked into using Accurate 5744? I'm sure if you messaged Accurate Powder they would provide you with data for the Lott, they have been helpful to me in the past.

No, I have not looked into Accurate powders as they are difficult to get in my area. Trail Boss I have on hand.

My Dad has loaded his 450/577 Martini Henry with it with excellent results. When he called Hodgon for reloading data Chris Hodgon told him to load the case to 70% capacity by volume (measured from where the base of the bullet will be once loaded) and move up from there. The loads, depending on charge chronograph between 650fps and 900fps and have little recoid and are very nice to shoot. It may have little use for hunting but I am considering loading some .505 Gibbs with Trail Boss for fun and see what happens.

Skeeter317,
I don’t see any problem in using the 458 mag data. The worst you might have to add a grain or two to get to a specific velocity. I have been planning on doing that but haven’t had time. I am going to use some 300 to 350 gr cast for plinking.
Bill

What a great topic.

I've got an extra pound of Trail Boss and a buttload of .458 350gr Laser casts. I've been wanting to load up my Lott and see what happens.

As above, I don't see anything wrong with using 458 WM data.

Tell us how you do...

Thanks much for the input to this point.

I did some measuring and came up with a case volume of 32 grains capacity of Trail Boss in an A Square Lott case. Filled to the bottom of the bullet without compression, the case capacity is 26 grains of TB. So, a 70% load would be 18.2 grains and that falls within the 458WM data from Hodgdon (13.0 for 860fps to 19.0 for 962fps). However, the Hodgdon load is for a 485 gr bullet; I'm loading 500gr.

My question is what is the upper limit for TB in this loading?

It probably reads like I'm being overly cautious, but I'm going slow with this one.

All contributions gratefully accepted!

quote:

My question is what is the upper limit for TB in this loading?

It probably reads like I'm being overly cautious, but I'm going slow with this one.

Based on my trailbos reloads, you will run out of space before you have pressure issues.
This being said I have not loaded a case as large as the 458lott.

quote:

Originally posted by Skeeter317:
Thanks much for the input to this point.

I did some measuring and came up with a case volume of 32 grains capacity of Trail Boss in an A Square Lott case. Filled to the bottom of the bullet without compression, the case capacity is 26 grains of TB. So, a 70% load would be 18.2 grains and that falls within the 458WM data from Hodgdon (13.0 for 860fps to 19.0 for 962fps). However, the Hodgdon load is for a 485 gr bullet; I'm loading 500gr.

My question is what is the upper limit for TB in this loading?

It probably reads like I'm being overly cautious, but I'm going slow with this one.

All contributions gratefully accepted!

I don’t rember if it was you who related they had some 500gr “swaged†bullets. You don’t want to go much over 1000 fps with swaged or you will have leading problems. I would stay around 850-950 fps with pure lead swaged bullets. There are some that are swaged from tougher alloy but are not that common.
I don’t think the upper limit is a problem unless you have hard cast and heat treated bullets, then you might run out of case capacity before you get to high pressure. Hogdon claims 22,700cup with 19gr TB. and the 485gr bullet for 962fps. I don’t see any problem substituting the 500GR with the same data in a lott. I would email Hodgon if you feel the need to go much higher. There may be issues with large compressed loads of TB that aren’t known.
Bill

Gentlemen,

Well, I decided to give it a go and loaded a few rounds with the 458WM data. I went with 17 gr and 19gr of Trail Boss for a start.

With the 510 gr swaged lead bullets (I was wrong in stating the weight earlier), with no gas check, no leading was observed in either load. 17 grains was a powder puff from the bench, with 19 grains generating recoil in the light 308 range, but with more muzzle flip. You could shoot either all day.

Accuracy at 100yds was just "OK": 3" vertical string with 1" lateral grouping for five shots. This is likely attributable to my bench technique with this rifle. Sorry, no Chrony. I did however, have time to distinctly hear a gap between the muzzle blast and the bullet "THUMPING" the backstop. Impressive. Sounded like someone dropping a book on the floor, flat.

I'll be giving Hodgdon a call to see if they have any input. The original idea was to load this bullet and cartridge to 45-70 levels for deer this season (308 and 303 work, but get boring after a time); 1000fps and 900 ft/lbs, however, doesn't sound like all that much for such a purpose. This situation is becoming reminiscint of loading a 22 Hornet; accept it for what it is, don't push hard, and have a load of fun.

If it comes to it, I'll use the 350gr Hornady round nose soft points I have on hand at about 2100 fps for deer. The Lott as BPE-Stand In will be an ongoing project.

quote:

Originally posted by Skeeter317:
If it comes to it, I'll use the 350gr Hornady round nose soft points I have on hand at about 2100 fps for deer. The Lott as BPE-Stand In will be an ongoing project.

350gr Hornady RN @ 2100 on a hog:




IMHO, 2100 fps is nearing the upper velocity limit with this bullet. The other bullet lost its jacket. I know this because I bit into it when I was eating my boar sausage!

akalinin,
Let me help you with your research in bullet performance. Please ship all the remaining boar sausage to me and I will search it diligently for bits of bullet and jacket fragments. I offer this service as a safety measure to you and your family.
Skeeter317,
I think that swaged 510gr bullet at 1000 fps will kill dear dead. I wouldn’t go to fast with the 350gr hornady’s as meat loss would be greater, but if you aren’t hunting for meat have fun.
Bill

A picture is worth a thousand words. I'll keep the speed down with the 350's.

We hunt for meat. If a buck happens along, so much the better.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Cooley:
akalinin,
Let me help you with your research in bullet performance. Please ship all the remaining boar sausage to me...

Ha! Already gone and tasty, too.

I gave Hodgdon a call this morning regarding the use of 510gr lead bullets in the 458 Lott with Trail Boss powder. The word from their tech section is to determine the capacity of the case with Trail Boss as measured from under the bullet intended to be used in a load, without compression. Using that amount as a maximum load, you may calculate 70% of the "under-bullet" capacity as a starting load with TB. I asked whether this formula is applicable to cartridges other than the Lott and was told that it was for all cartridges (using cast bullets) other than those very small cases which might not be able to take enough TB to generate a decent velocity. As told to me today, and as suggested by another post in this thread, you'll run out of room before you run into pressure problems with TB and lead bullets.

On the subject of reduced loads I was also advised that where one sees a load for any calibre using H4895 in a given bullet weight for a given calibre, one may take the maximum stated load, reduce by (not to!)40%, and have a safe reduced velocity loading.

All in all a very helpful talk with the good folks at Hodgdon this morning.

That having been said, your mileage may vary, and we're all individually responsible for the advice we seek, and/or follow when reloading anything.