?

Metoo- 75 ft lbs of recoil energy.Ed.

Depends on how much powder you have to burn, i.e., which case you're using.
According to Powley, you ought to be able to do 1400 with the 450 Alaskan, with a 16" bbl.
It would take about 42g of RL7, and would give you 47 ft/lb at 20 fps or so.
The powder charge has a lot to do with recoil.
What do you have planned?

Forgot to mention, that's something like 40k CUP or less.

Nothing up my sleeve, just want to enter the Big Bore realm with a bit of knowledge. I'm in the part of the country where mostly muzzle loaders and shotguns are used for deer hunting. The northern 2/3 of the state is a rifle area where a 30-06 is considered big artillery. So when I look into the darkness beyond, I don't know what to expect as I shuffle my way towards the purchase of a Big Bore. Being in an isolated world where a 300 win mag is referred to as an Elephant gun, I grin with the thought of uncasing a 416 Rigby. I would like to understand the relationship between the 416 recoil and that of the ballistics of 3 1/2 inch 12ga waterfowl loads that I listed above. I can season myself to the recoil as far as subduing a flinch, however my concern is physical damage that creates a chronic shoulder problem ending short my journey into the Big Bore land..... a journey just beginning.....

500 gr slugs at 1500 fps in a 12 pound 470 NE double rifle is a pussy cat ... very mild. Starts to get more interesting at 1800 fps. Unpleasant to shoot from the bench at 2150 fps.

A short Marlin in 45-70 with stouter loads is unpleasant due to the low weight and narrow butt outline.

600 gr at 1400 fps in a 7.5 pound rifle is not something that I'd want to shoot. Doesn't sound a bit like fun to me.

If you're genuinely concerned about reinjuring a chronic shoulder problem, look for a heavier rifle. My 338 weighs in at a hair over 8 with a scope. The 375 comes in at the mid 9 pound level complete, and the Rigby in at the mid 10 pound range. The 375 seems to be the optimum in terms of unfelt recoil. Don't notice it much except with heavy bullets at the bench. When there is game under the cross hairs I don't notice it at all. Rigby is hard to ignore anytime ;>

600gr @ 1400fps from a 7.25lb gun?
More than a 30-06 but nothing that will beat you up in the least. I would try some XMP5744 in whatever you're shooting as it's recoil is a lot less 'sharp' than many other powders I've used.
For comparison testing, shoot a heavy slug/shot from a single shot shotgun and that's about what you're looking at for recoil (1oz = 437.5gr, 1.37oz = 600gr).

I know the feeling about using 'elephant guns' in deer camp as a dozen of are in camp with 7x57 Mausers, 308 Win, 30-30's, 30-06's, and one guy with a big .45-70 leaver action - then there's me. I'm always using something different, two yrs ago a .50AE upper on an AR-15 lower, last year a 50BMD (460Wby case cut to 2" with a .510" bullet) with a 750gr Hornady A-Max and this year something mild, a CZ .416 Rigby with Speer 350gr bullets. Well, I got my deer .

BMG

I have shot a 500 grain bullet out of a NEF handi-rifle @ 1700 fps. That rifle weighs in at about 7.5 lbs. Let me tell you...that is no fun. I used a bag of shot behind the butt when I chronographed those loads.

600 grain at 1400 fps out of 7.25 my guess is it wouldnt be fun.

Jason

Metoo: I would go ahead and get the .416. Unless you are very wealthy, you will need to handload anyway, and you can start low and work up. The Rigby is a wonderful cast bullet cartridge with XMP5744, and can be loaded down for an afternoon's workout on pop cans, or up until you don't want to go any higher.

METOO,
Is that the 12 ga 3" brenneke load you are talking about? I think the powder in a shotshell makes this a little less recoil than a few of the maths estimates here.

Mate get the 416 and just load light bullets for most of your hunting.

Save the 410 grainer at 2350fps for a one off special hunt(it won't kill ya )and looks, and load say 300gn X-bullets for everything else, or light Hawk bullets, or even cast bullets. Most of us do this for our bigbores.Its no different from choosing a lighter bullet for game in any calibre where the occasion arises.Cuts recoil back as far as you want to.

No one will know the difference what's hanging out your cases anyway at a hunt.

Just remember to have a 450 grainer loaded to about 2500fps handy when someone else wants a shot

Tell them "I'll start you off on one o' these lead round noses. They're not as tough as the x-bullets, so they're a bit softer on the shoulder"

Karl.

Cant be all that bad ,this is what I shoot out of my S/W 500-8/38" bbl- 600gr LFNGC at 1450 fps 33.5gr-LIL GUN (MAX)this in a 4.5lb handgun,Sean

[ 11-10-2003, 23:17: Message edited by: 475/480 ]

I think recoil tolerance can be more of an individual thing. Some people complain about a 22-250. When I bought my first handgun, I wanted a 454, but the stories of broken thumbs steered me towards a 44mag. I shot the 44 and wanted more. The one thing I didn't think of with the 454 was that I could always load it down and work up.
I'm working on a 470 project on a 12ga double. When I first shot it, it weighed less than 8lbs and had a solid butt plate. The recoil was noticeable but really wasn't all that bad.
Get the 416 and start casting bullets for it, then you can shoot and practice for cheap.

should have said this will be a new volume and not a new chapter. Volume one was 25 years of shotgun, handgun,and muzzleloading hunting and the occasional borrowed rifle. Volume two- leaping into the big bore. It seems that after I shoot the 416 that I won't have to take a few steps backwards bend over and pick up my arm... I will be getting a cz since some of my roots and distant cousins are there. Yes I will be reloading which is a whole new topic in the future. As far as ease of reloading, how does the 416 Rigby rank? I find comfort knowing that it can be loaded way down to plinking velocities. That way if I develop shoulder problems, I'll still be able to enjoy my rifle and not have to sell it. Anyone hear when the CZ550 Safari with the American will be released? Thanks for all of your advice.

I called CZ last week with the same question. They said they had the actions, and were waiting for the stocks. Were expecting the stocks soon, but had no idea exactly when they would arrive At least they were not willing to make any forecasts on the phone to me.

Metoo: The Rigby is a piece of cake to load for. I used Lyman dies (about $23 from Midway) and Norma brass, along with Hornady 400-grain JSPs and some RCBS cast gas-checked 365s. This has got to be one of the easiest of the big bores to load for. You will love it, I promise you.

Metoo - ditto what Bill/Oregon said, the 416 Rigby is a great cartridge for loading, very versatile - brass is a bit spendy but you can maximize your brass life by annealing them - load it down for plinking, load it up for "hold your hat and don't stand up" KMule

You guys are getting me geeked up.... It will be one of those, I should have done it years ago with all of this fun.... As a bonus the gun club has an over forty bore shoot once a month during the summer. This may just turn out to be my favorite. I hope everyone has patience with my multitude of questions coming over the next few months. I guess I could put the cart in front of the horse and start asking about the reloading components. My father was a tool and die maker that reinforced in me the pride of high quality close tolerance equipment. So the first question that I will also post on the reloading board is where do I start with high quality equipment that will last multiple generations? As someone finds time, could you list the minimal components necessary to reload accurate 416 Rigby's and then the nice to have items also? For this endeavor I will stray from the Escort and concentrate on the Cadillac's. Best brass? Best press? I understand the Forster may be the best? Please respond in the reloading board so that we can keep it on topic. Thanks for the info.

Metoo read your PM messages.

i dunno..

i was shooting remington 1.5 oz slugs in my 6.5# coach gun at the range.... recoil MUCH less than a 375 hh.... in fact, i would say more between a 30-06 and a 358win... in other words, one could easliy train around it...

jeffe

[ 11-19-2003, 14:32: Message edited by: jeffeosso ]

Its all in what you want and what you can handle.
I shoot a 600gr 50cal bullet at 1800+fps out of a 6.5lb handgun. Its a handfull but it works for me. On the flip side a 338 Win. with 250gr fact loads in a rifle hurts me.. I can handle handguns better. Everyone is difforent, the key is to see were you fit !

Happy shooting
Fred

Karl,

Your "BADDDDDD"!
Just remember to have a 450 grainer loaded to about 2500fps handy when someone else wants a shot

Tell them "I'll start you off on one o' these lead round noses. They're not as tough as the x-bullets, so they're a bit softer on the shoulder"

Roger QSL

About the kickin'est gun I have pulled the trigger on was a 5-3/4 lb. NEF Tracker II in 12 ga. firing a 600 grain roundball set in motion by a 200 grain equivilant of Pyrodex P. 1600 fps. What Fun!!!