I own a Winchester M71 lever action which I use as a back up on cats. I am very fomd of it as a fast handling rifle in a tight spot and wonder if anyone has any experience on a .40 cal wildcat based on the parent .348 case or the .45-90 case?

Ideal!!! (whats that?) would be a true .40 cal shooting a 350grn mono or X bullet at 2250fps. I could then use 200grn .40 s& W bullets (which are actually available in zimbabwe) for practice. Otherwise perhaps .410 cal so I can use the .41 mag bullets for practice.

Have just been playing with one of A square's new dual purpose magnums (aka .400 pondoro) and am favorably impressed with the concept.

Accept that in a lever rifle bullets need to be flat nosed, but this is fine. All the softs I normally use in my Mauser are flat nosed bullets made for me by Ken Stuart. Even in solids I like flat nosed bullets provided the impact velocity is high enough to ensure good penertration.

Lastly am not looking to load to maximum! High pressures do not appeal in a mauser, let alone the winchester.

Your thoughts and advice are appreciated.

G, why not just use the ole stand by in the 71, the 450 alaskan?, or the 50 alaskan,from my understanding they are both simple resized and necked up 348 brass, they were at one time very popular in the north for big brownies, my dad had one,of the 50's and he used to use 50BMG slugs with the nose cut off and reversed loaded in the shell, he swore he got that from his bear guide .I think it was Erich over at the Shooters forum that came up with a 416 version based on the new 450 marlin case, he may be able to help www.shootersforum.com

Howdy...
the 450 alaskan will launch a 400 at 2250 with a 26" barrel... and that's MAX loads in a 71....

IMNSHO
the 400/416/404/458 are "40's"...

good luck on this, but I thought you guys paid hell for reloading kit in zim

jeffe

Reloading in zim- only way to get ammo, but yes, take the price of any componant in USA and quadruple it!

in .45 cal minimum bullet weight to get the necessary sectional density for all round arican use would be .465 grn. Need a sectional density of .290 at 2250fps or .300 at 2200fps to be safe.

Check out the 411 and 416 wildcats that Barnes did on this case, - Dan

Ganyana
John Kronfeld did an article in Big Bore Rifles and Cartridges, by Wolfe Publishing, on the 416 Alaskan/416-348 Improved.
In ythe 416 Alaskan with 400gr Trophy Bonded [modified] he got 1830fps with 54 grains of IMR 4895.
In the 416-348 Improved he got 1961 fps with the same bullet and 59gr of IMR 4064.
With 360 grain cast bullets in the 416/348 Improved he was able to get 2244 fps with 65gr of IMR 4064.
All this with a 20 inch bbl.
Hope this helps.

What you are looking for is the .416 Barnes. It is the .45-70 necked down to .416 caliber.

It will drive a 400 grain bullet to 2,150 fps.

It is a terrific idea that, unfortunately, the folks at Marlin never had.

But Fred Barnes thought it up in the '80s and, for whatever reason, it has not caught fire.

One day, my 1974 vintage M1895, in a takedown, with two barrels and fore ends . . .

I agree with following Kronfeld's example and pursuing the 416/348 improved, most likely because I have that rifle! Everyone who's tried it loves it, .....you have more than sufficient power, and more importantly, the recovery time for a quick second shot is short. ...With cats, you can appreciate this. The major problems with the .450 Alaskan is the recovery time........you're not going to be quick on the follow up shots. The reamers are available, and RCBS has the dies ............flat nose .416 jacketed bullets are available, but it's just as easy to cast up some hard bullets that will better serve your purposes. For those who doubt this cartridge and insist on more, I can only reply "been there, done that" and the 416/348 IMP has accounted for too many charging bears plus several non-charging moose.

As an aside for anyone who followed John's experiments with the .450 and .500 Alaskans, and then the .416 Alaskan and and .416/.348, all on the smae rifle, and than sent it to me, this firearm is living proof of the durability of the Model 71, ....as Dave Scovill once said, no other rifle has been better proof tested for durability ...........not once has it failed! And it's seen thousands of shots, all fullbore and fullhouse! ~Arctic~

416 Barnes is not the way forward. At realistic working pressures the maximum velocities achievable with a 400grn .416 dia bullet must be less than are possible for a 400 grn bullet in the original .45 cal due to piston effect. One lad out here has one built on a martini action. We put a stain guage on it, and a 400grn bullet at 1700fps gave 55000 psi. Obviously this is tranduceer presure which is not the same as factory would give but it is the same as modern .404 or 9,3 ammo. Fine in a bolt action but pushing the friendship in a lever gun.

The .416 Improved sounds like it has potential. Anybody actually have one? Mine is the only M71 arround that I know of, so experimentation isn't easy.

Does anybody have any loads for the 45-90 at modern pressures like they have worked up for the .45-70?

The velocity I quoted originally came from Barnes's data in COTW, 9th Ed., which, admittedly, can be on the "optimistic" side for a lot of the wildcats listed.



And I certainly agree that 55,000 psi is way too high for any lever action.



I do like the idea of the .416/.348 Improved. With that size case, it should be possible to get 2,150 fps with a 350 grain bullet at a safe "lever action" pressure.



Anybody have any loading data?

In a 71 or 86 Win action I would go with 50/110 case necked down to .416. My 450/110 gets 2400 with a 420 grain .58 bullet so I believe that 2300 with a 400 grain .416 bullet would certainly be possible from this wildcat.