I bought a CZ in 450 Dakota from Daqridude this afternoon. Anybody got one that reloads for it?
Am looking for load data.

Rich
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Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

...It basically is a 450 Rigby isn,t it and quite simular to the 460 Weatherby .,., I would think there would be good data there ....????

Damn that went quick!!....Oh Well

I have a sheet on handloading for the 450 dakota,and will try to find it for you. I believe max load is 110 grains of IMR ###, let me check. The max load, as recommended by the reloading manual, will get you 6770 ft.lbs. of energy, = 500 grain bullet at 2470 ft/sec.

Here are some loads for the 450 Dakota.With a 500 grain bullet, swift A Frame, or 500 grain Barnes solid,IMR 4350-104 grn at 2314 ft/sec.H4350-105 grn at 2342 ft/sec,IMR 4350-104 grn.at 2315 ft/sec,IMR 4381-110 grn at 2395 ft/sec. The max loads are IMR 4350-110 grn. at 2470 ft/sec, IMR4381-112 grn. at 2444 ft/sec. With a 450 grain bullet RL15-105 grn. at 2732 ft/sec,IMR 4064-105 grn at 2763 ft/secv.IMR 4350-115 grn at 2650 ft/sec. I hope this helps.By the way, Wendall Reich, a hunter guide out of Texas did the glass bedding on your rifle.

Bigdoggy700,

thanks for the quick response.

Ol Bull,

snooze ya lose! I'll let you shoot it at your Helena match.

Rich
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Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Hey Rich,

Just a friendly heads-up...If you haven't already saw it, there's a pretty good deal on some 450 Dakota brass over in the classifieds right now.

Hey Rich, well done!! Rifle, dies, brass all while shopping on ARbay.

How does the 450 Dakota/Rigby do with 400/450 grained bullets...? ALSO, can they be loaded down to shoot 500 G bullets at Win mag velocities? Just curious. THnks.

366Torque,

I repeat; come to Helena and shoot it in June!

Big Doggy700,

thanks for all the data. Appreciate the assistance.

One-stop shopping at its best!


Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Rich!

That 458 Dakota just begs to be fed some 550 grain Woodleighs. At 2,250 to 2,350 it should shoot from stem to stern on an elephant.

465H&H

Rich,

PM sent.

Cheers,
Andy

Idaho,

Here are some of my loads and notes for the 450 Dakota.

Note that these were developed with ORIGINAL 450 Dakota Brass.

The new brass is MUCH lighter, so confirm which you are using first. (I took the lighter brass to Africa and just loaded to similar velocity).

Note that there is about 5 grains diffeence in max powder charge between Bigdoggys RL-15 loads and mine. Probably due to different brass so MAKE SURE in your rifle.

RELOADING DATA FOR 450 Dakota.
C 2004 Andy Tillman

CZ 550 action, 21 ½ inch barrel, Dakota brass, Federal 215 or 215-Match primer.

Temperatures from 40 - 95 degrees F.

These reloads have not been pressure tested. Use this data at your own risk.

You can save yourself alot of trouble by just using RL-15.

My favorite bullets were the 450 grain bonded and FN solid North Fork.

With the NF, RL-15, and new brass, this ammo was still safe to shoot at 120 F in Zimbabwae.

RL-15

400 gr North Fork

96 gr 2530 fps 3.715 ocl
98 gr 2558 fps 3.715 ocl
100 gr. 2632 fps
102 gr. 2666 fps
104 gr. 2702 fps Just compressed.
104 gr. 2662 fps 3.745 ocl. Federal 215-M.
104 gr. 2676 fps
104 gr. 2698 fps

400 gr Barnes RN Solid

100 gr Error 3.710 ocl
102 gr. 2624 fps
104 gr 2657 fps 3.626 ocl
105 gr. 2683 fps Federal 215-M. Cycled well.
106 gr 2724 fps

425 grain Rhino SSP 3.697 OCL.

96 gr. 2242 fps
98 gr 2331 fps
100 gr 2328 fps
102 gr 2413 fps
104 gr 2426 fps
106 gr 2597 fps
108 gr 2657 fps Probably maximum pressure at this temperature.
110 gr 2707 fps

450 gr Barnes RN Solid

100 gr 2532 fps
100 gr. 2495 fps.
102 gr 2569 fps 3.699 ocl
102 gr. 2553 fps 3.67 ocl Federal 215-M.
103 gr 2602 fps

102 gr 2555 fps
102 gr 2546 fps

450 gr GSFN

100 gr 2453

450 gr Barnes X 3.726 ocl, 2.859 case length. Heavy copper fouling. Don’t use.

96 gr 2379 fps
98 gr 2453 fps
100 gr 2495 fps No compression yet. Primer round on edge flat on surface.

450 gr North Fork

96 gr 2464 fps
98 gr. 2505 fps
100 gr. 2547 fps

100 gr. 2565 fps 3.740 ocl. Very consistant.
2555 fps
2558 fps
2543 fps

450 gr North Fork FN Solid

96 gr 2435 fps 3.725 ocl
98 gr 2498 fps
100 gr 2508 fps

450 gr North Fork FN Solid Truncated Cone.

100 gr 2357 fps 3.725 OCL (2395 fps NF CP, 2430 fps NF SP).Same POI w cold barrel.

450 gr Kodiak RNSP 3.650-3.660 ocl. Try 0.015 off rifling next time. (3.675)

100 gr 2478 2 x 2 ½ inch group. 2.5 square w GSFN.
2488
2491
2469

465 gr A-Square RN Solid 3.647 OCL seated to canelure.

96 gr 2,414 fps ¾ x 1 1/8 inch group with first five shots at 50 yards. On POA.
96 gr 2,398 fps
98 gr 2481 fps
98 gr 2464 fps
100 gr 2513 fps
100gr 2510 fps
100 gr 2557 fps 1 ½ inch Low and On at 100 yards.

485 grain Rhino RN 3.722 -3.731 OCL.

92 gr 2236 fps
94 gr 2334 fps
96 gr 2346 fps
98 gr 2381 fps
100 gr. 2441 fps Good load.

500 gr Trophy Bonded Bear Claw 3.50 ocl (about 0.250 inches below the crimp canelure)

96 gr. 2407 fps
96 gr. 2412 fps
98 gr. 2438 fps

500 gr Swift

96 gr 2372 fps
96 gr 2417 fps
96 gr 2397 fps

BOFORS (N203)

400 gr Woodleigh

98 gr 2578 fps 3.5 ocl (to cannelure)
98 gr 2542 fps

425 grain Rhino 3.680 OCL

108 gr 2716 fps

450 gr Barnes Triple Shock 3.723 OCL just below canelure Less blue copper fouling and more accurate than Barnes X.

94 gr 2440 fps Easy extraction. Accurate.
96 gr 2500 fps Easy extraction. Accurate. Good load.
98 gr 2580 fps On at 50 yards. Good load.
100 gr 2616 fps Sticky bolt. 1 ½ “high.

450 grain North Fork FN Solid 3.630 (2nd groove).

102 gr 2612 fps Flat primer w slight round edge.
104 gr 2603 fps Reduce 2 grains.

450 grain North Fork CP 3.632 OCL (3rd groove).

102 gr 2617 fps Round primer!
104 gr 2597 fps Reduce 2.0 grains.

450 grain North Fork SP 3.738 OCL (3rd groove).

100 gr 2561 fps Cold barrel. NF SP, FN, CP very accurate. Overlapped 100 yards.

465 gr A-Square RN Solid 3.652 OCL just below canelure.

92 gr 2349 fps
94 2467 fps
96 gr 2461 fps
98 gr 2538 fps
100 gr 2563 fps

485 grain Rhino RN 3.732 OCL

100 gr 2527 fps Over max load. Do not use. Test shot for water buckets. No moly coating on previous shots caused pressure spike?

500 gr Kodiak 3.617 ocl

94 gr 2357 fps
96 gr 2392 fps
98 gr 2455 fps

500 Woodleigh 3.718 – 3.726 ocl

94 gr 2333 fps
96 gr 2336 fps
98 gr 2384 fps Low pressure.

500 Swift 3.748 ocl

96 gr 2407 fps

96 gr 2337 fps Cold barrel.
96 gr 2384 fps
96 gr 2425 fps

500 Barnes X 3.758 ocl

96 gr 2406 fps

IMR 4064

400 gr North Fork

100 gr 2637 fps
102 gr 2692 fps 3.74 ocl
102 gr 2712 fps
104 gr 2774 fps 3.74 ocl
104 gr 2735 fps 3.715 ocl

450 gr North Fork 3.748 ocl

94 gr 2417 fps
96 gr 2518 fps
98 gr 2521 fps 4064 was faster burning than RL-15 with the 400 gr and slower w 450.

96 gr 2516 fps 3.740 ocl.
98 gr 2563 fps
98 gr. 2573 fps 3.745 ocl, Federal 215 Match at 85 degrees F.
98 gr. 2577 fps Less pressure than 100 gr. RL15 at same vel. Good load.
100 gr 2607 fps Still safe pressure.

98 gr 2465 fps
98 gr 2515 fps

450 gr Barnes RN Solid

98 gr 2332 fps ?
98 gr 2553 fps
98 gr 2430 fps
98 gr 2416 fps

450 gr North Fork FN Solid

98 gr. 2561 fps. 3.609 ocl 2nd to last driving band. F215-M.

450 gr GSFN Retest at 3.730 ocl.

98 gr. 2546 fps. 3.58 ocl 2nd to last driving band. Extractor did not engage rim.
100 gr. 2605 fps. 3.58 ocl. Extractor did not engage rim. Don’t use.

98 gr 2502
98 gr 2524

450 gr Barnes X 3.754 ocl. Worst copper fouling I’ve ever seen. Don’t use.

96 gr 2459 fps
98 gr 2524 fps Slightly compressed. 3.746 ocl
100 gr 2599 fps Round primer. Compressed load.

450 gr Swift 3.709 ocl (0.030 off rifling).

98 gr 2460 fps Mild.
100 gr 2531 fps Sharp shoulder, round primer. No compression. Nice load.

450 gr Kodiak RN 3.65 - 3.660 ocl

98 gr 2473 fps
98 gr 2496 Not very accurate. (3 x 3 inches).
2501
2496
2521

100 gr 2561 Not very accurate.
2573
2546
2564

465 gr A-Square RN Solid

94 gr 2510 fps Cold barrel. 5†Low, 2 “ Left.
94 gr 2524 fps 2 “ Low, 1†Left

96 gr 2546 fps 1†Low, I†Left. Within one inch above.
96 gr 2536 fps Clover leaf above. Round primers.

98 gr Error. ½ “ Right and On.
98 gr Error ½ “ Right and On.

IMR 4895

450 gr North Fork 3.730 ocl

94 gr 2620 fps???
96 gr 2497 fps
98 gr 2556 fps Flat primer in cool weather. Probably too fast burning.
100 gr 2613 fps Still not compressed.

VARGET

450 gr North Fork 3.734 ocl

94 gr 2503 fps More air space left in case than with 4064. Good for 500 gr bullet?
96 gr 2540 fps Round primer
98 gr 2553 fps Flatter
100 gr 2608 fps Barely any radius left
102 gr 2621 fps

IMR 4350

450 gr North Fork

104 gr. 2370 fps
106 gr. 2414 fps
108 gr 2438 fps 3.710 ocl
110 gr 2503 fps 3.748 ocl. Don’t exceed 110 gr due to erratic velocity.
112 gr. 2431 fps Beginning to loose velocity at increased load density!
114 gr. 2412 fps 3.801 ocl. +100% loading density. Erratic vel but low preessure.

450 gr. Barnes X 3.754 ocl.

110 gr. 2354 fps Heavily compressed. Switch to faster burning powder.

450 gr. GSFN 3.73 ocl.

106 gr. Error.
108 gr. 2416 fps.
110 gr. 2464 fps. On with 112 gr. 450 gr North Fork.

VHITA VOURI 550

450 gr. North Fork

98 gr. 2383 fps 3.740 ocl.
100 gr. 2445 fps
102 gr. 2500 fps
104 gr. 2530 fps Still not filled to base of shoulder.
104 gr. 2513 fps Cold barrel. Soft shoulder.
106 gr. 2570 fps Completely round primer!
108 gr. 2602 fps Just compressed. 2/3 round primer. Best high velocity load?

450 gr. Kodiak RNSP 3.650-3.660 ocl.

108 gr. 2556 fps Most accurate powder for of Kodiak. 1 x 1.5†(3).
2606 fps
2579 fps
2574 fps

450 gr. GSFN 3.73 ocl.

450 gr Barnes RN Solid

108 gr. 2412 fps
108 gr 2538 fps
108 gr 2536 fps
108 gr 2548 fps

PS The 450 Dakota is one of the easiest ctgs you will ever reload for.

Andy

Andy,
you are da man!

Thanks to you and Big Doggy and Adrook, and a few others I should have plenty of data to work thru; and not pursue any dead end loads.

This looks like a great cartridge. Retirement is going to let me go to Africa a couple times, and I will have several big bores to choose from now. Research calls...

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Rich,

Here is the rest of the data that I promised you. This is all 3 shot groups with the 450 gr Barnes TSX.

WW760

102.0gr 2368,2343,2355

105.0gr 2388,2382,2390

106.0gr 2410,2412,2417 Very accurate. No pressure signs.

108.0gr 2488,2476,2460 Mild. No pressure signs.


RL-15

96.0gr 2415,2405,2410 Accurate. Probably need a filler.

98.0gr 2450,2462,2458 Vertical group.

100.0gr 2529,2528,2524 Most accurate RL-15 load. No pressure signs.


RL-19

106.0gr 2343,2327,2346 Very accurate. Mild.

109.0gr 2388,2378,2365

110.0gr 2390,2381,2404 Accurate.


IMR4064

94.0gr 2492,2485,2497 Accurate. Probably need a filler.

96.0gr 2480,2497,2506 Accurate. Probably need a filler.


Have fun. It's a great cartridge and seems to be pretty accurate with about any load.

Cheers,
Andy

Rich,

I have a 458 cal. 550 gr gascheck NEI mold if you want to give some of those a try. Should be burn'n some lead pretty soon and could send some your way if you like. It's pretty much the exact shape of a Hornady 500 with 50 extra grains.

I got that mold specifically for making my 458's kick harder, and it works very well in that regard. Without the shields it will whop the potty water out of you.

TMc
Tom McCoy

bring the mould along. I might rob you of it for a week or so and make some up to try in the Dakota.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Andy: can you elaborate a bit more on the brass differeces? jorge

Gorge,

I am on the road right now and do not have access to my reloads. But one case says 450 Dakota and the other says Dakota Arms 450 as I recall.

The weight difference is significant, equal to about 5 grains powder charge as I recall.

I went w the newer lighter cases when I went to Zim as the ammo weight really added up w 60 cases and the lighter cases kept me under airline weight limit.

I did not has as much experience w them as the original which held up to 12 full power reloads without so much as a split case neck.

RIP knew some details about who made the brass, you might ask him?

I love the 450 dakota ctg. It is one of the easiest to reload you will ever find. Its large "expansion ratio" likes relatively fast burning powders like RL 15 whcih is surely the most stable of all double base pwders.

I will check in here when i return from vacation and let you know the head stamps of each.

Andy

Thanks Andy, I figured it out. I have about 30 boxes and I think only one is the old stuff. When the "earth cools" and I get my 450 from Hein, I have your load data to start working up both solids & softs and I didn't want to mess with different brass issues. JohnS also recommended RL-15 and that is what I have. jorge

the cool thing; Safari Kid should have shipped mine this afternoon, or at least in the morning. It will be waiting for me at Boise Gun Company when I get home next monday evening. I am going to have Brooks make me a 550 grain gas check mould and play with that first.

Thanks again for the assistance, all of you. My brass is all head stamped DAKOTA on one side, and 450 on the other.

Rich
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quote:

My brass is all head stamped DAKOTA on one side, and 450 on the other.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Rich,

That is the older, thicker brass.

Cheers,
Andy

Jorge,

Any word from Greg on your .450? My .450 is a Hein and it is a wonderful rifle. It's too bad he's having the problems that he seems to be having.

Cheers,
Andy

Jorge,

I sympathize with your situation. Give it another couple months so I can run up there on the Electra Glide and I will check for you in person if you wish. Or at least try to.

Rich
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Gents: There is a post over on the Gunsmithing section from Howard that sheds light on the situation. It appears my action is off to getting heat treated ang Greg's promised a 1 July delivery. I've asked for pictures of the progress by 15 April. Sure I'll take all the "recce missions" I can get!
From what Howard said, there appeared to be lots going on, but I suspect most of that is his business with Hill Country Rifles in providing actions. Like Others have said here, I suspect he'll eventually get out of the compelte rifle business and concentrate on actions or barreled actions alone.
Andy, how long did yours take for delivery? jorge

Jorge,

I'm sorry but I cannot answer that as I bought the rifle new from the individual who originally ordered it from Wffn. Hein and he incurred the wait and I am not sure how long it took to take delivery. I can say that it is of such a high grade of quality and workmanship that it would be well worth a lengthy wait to get but I certainly understand your concerns with financial solvency and so forth given that you must have a sizable deposit on the line. Best of luck to you and I hope that you receive your rifle soon. I concur with you on your statement that Greg should be more responsive to the concerns of his customers (I read the other thread). I emailed him some time back regarding the fact that there was a lot of chatter on AR regarding Wffn. Hein and that he might want to respond and clear the air but he never did so. That's not the way that I conduct my business but I wish the best for both he and his customers.

Cheers,
Andy

Thanks, Andy. I think the solvency issues have been put to bed, but the customer response is still a concern. Thanks for all your help with loads and I'm eager to start loading once I get the rifle. Cheers, jorge

Hearsay has it that

Jamison made at least some of the older, heavier brass with headstamp: "Dakota" (circling the primer) "450"
and
Norma made the latest, lighter/greater capacity brass: "Dakota Arms" (circling the primer) "450"

RL-15 or Varget with 450-grainers
or
H4350 with 500-grainers

Good luck Jorge.
Via con Dios.

two other companies were involved in the brass making too. A-Square was first, then BELL (MAST technologies), then Jamison, then Norma.

quote:

Originally posted by Ken Cline:
two other companies were involved in the brass making too. A-Square was first, then BELL (MAST technologies), then Jamison, then Norma.

Sounds right.
Art Alphin designed some of Dakota's cartridges.
He was there at the beginning, making the brass, eh?