I have always wanted to try the .404 Jeffrey, and I recently noticed that CZ will begin offering their safari rifle in this caliber. I do have three questions about this cartridge. (1)Who is loading factory ammo for the cartridge? (2) Are reloading components readily obtainable? I load for some oddball metric calibers and I often have to wait for runs to be made on brass. This isn't really a problem, but I am curious about the situation with the .404. (3) What are some general opinions about the cartridge in general (good or bad). I will try this caliber for myself regardless of bad opinions, but I am curious and any input would be appreciated. Thanks.

A-square loads some factory stuff. Maybe others also. You can get dies from Huntington for about $25O. I can't realy have an opinion 'cause I don't have a 404 but most folks agree that it'll do anything a 416 Rigby will do. I just aquired a 09 Argentine that will be a 404 jefery some day. David Christman has a reamer so I'm a barrel and a stock and a couple of years away from a big time deer stopper.

Shawn

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Originally posted by 9.3 rifleman:
(1)Who is loading factory ammo for the cartridge?

Norma and as I recall RWS

quote:

2) Are reloading components readily obtainable?

Yes bullets are avialable from Northfork, Woodleigh and Swift....possibly Nosler as well
Cases are also available at Midway and Huntington's

quote:

(3) What are some general opinions about the cartridge in general (good or bad). I will try this caliber for myself regardless of bad opinions, but I am curious and any input would be appreciated. Thanks

It's a very powerful round....similar to the .416 Rigby and handles in .375 length actions. I fnd it easy to load for and of mild recoil.

From a practical standpoint one is far better off with a .416 Remmy.....but it's just the tradition we follow at times.

Redding dies from Grafs only $118US for the .404 J and redding probably are better than rcbs !!

I am having a .404 J made on a 1909......just the stock to go it will be 2 years this October so the whole thing has taken a while

The .404 is a grand old cartridge that can handle just about any big game hunting situation you might have. Bullets are available from Woodleigh, North Fork, Barnes (if you can find some old stock, no longer made), Hawk & Swift. Brass is only available here from Norma, Bell (again if you can find some older stock), RWS (now & then) & Hornebehr (sp). You can also make servicable brass from cheap .375RUM cases. The Norma is readily available though & not too pricey. Dies from RCBS or Redding for about $120. Go to Midway's sight & do a search.
I'm hoping Hornady or Federal will start making affordable ammo w/ CZ making rifles available. Send Hornady & Speer e-mails asking them to make an affordable bullet. BTW, you can size down 300gr 44mag bullets to make "plinkers" for your .404. I've shot several 1 1/2" groups using these bullets.

Fred is sizing down .44 bullets for the .404 hard ?? can it be done with a normal press.

Barnes X 350gr + 81.0gr of H-4895.
Barnes no longer lists that one.
I find it strange that in the Trinity of .404 Jeffrey, .425 Westley Richards, .416 Rigby the one that requires the most specialized action, or most extensive modification to an existing one is the most popular number. The "Magnum Mauser Inc." strikes again!

quote:

BTW, you can size down 300gr 44mag bullets to make "plinkers" for your .404. I've shot several 1 1/2" groups using these bullets.

Fred

Like PC I'd like more info on this also. What powders with these "light" bullets? Sounds like the start of some great plink'in ammo. And nobody has to know that those aren’t full power 404 loads you’re shooting at that crow.

Shawn

At the SHOT show Federal had a flyer advertising that they were/are? planing on loading 404 ammo this summer. They are somewhat vague about it now. I Hope it happens.

Thank you all for the valuable input and information. I sure hope that Federal follows through and begins to manufacture the ammunition, but I did not realize that cases could be formed from .375 RUM cases (that's great news). Now I am even more excited to try the caliber. Thanks again.

I built a 404, its no doubt a gun buff round. Other than the dies, which may have cost me 75 bucks more than my 416 rigby, its not anymore expensive to load for than most of the big bores for the most part. I got my 404 brass on sale at Huntington's. Woodleigh bullets are easy to get and plenty good, but you don't have the selection as with a 458 or a 416, but how many different bullets does a guy need.

9.3
Not surprising inasmuch as the 375 RUM is the child of the 404 case..just a reformed blown out 404...

Having used the 404 and most of the 40 calibers for years, I have found the 404 to be the best killer of them all, be it the little extra bullet cross section or merely coincedence, it has just done a better job for me, and that is based on an awful lot of Buffalo and large plainsgame..On paper the are all about equal..that is my firm opinnion, right or wrong.

Brass is available from Norma and HDS today, RWS dropped the 404, but I suspect they will pick it back up with the adoption of the 404 in CZ rifles...Federal is coming out with loaded ammo for the .404, as has A-Square, and probably more will jump on the .404 band wagon, the more folks that use it the better it will become, much like the .338 Win, it won't be an overnight success but will gradually be recognized for the great caliber it is and always has been..

Bullets are available from Swift, Barnes, Woodleigh, GS Customs (RSA), North Fork, Rhino (RSA, And Rhino (Alaska), several other RSA bullet makers, Bridger, and probably a few others....

Easy to load round, accurate, and powerful, and the recoil is within the 416 Rem class, so anyone should be able to tame it with practice..

It high point is it feeds smooth and extracts even when a excess load is shot.

Its only downside is very few US gunsmith are familair with it, and capable of making it feed 100% and the available magazine boxes produced here are not workable without considerable modification..

Mauser, and the English gunmakers never had a problem with it, nor do the present European rifle builders such as Harold Wolfe, Johannson,and a couple of others...Why this is I don't know except probably the US makers are just not familiar with it...and there is absolutly no need for a big magnum action, thats a waste of a good action that would be better suited to a 416 Rigby or better yet a 500 or 505...Standard M-98 Mausers, or FNs make nice light well balanced 404s IMO...

For those interested, I ordered a bullet sizer from Lee in .423. I have used Hornady 300grXTP, but think the Speer GD would be better as the jacket is sort of bonded. I use Imperial sizing wax & size in steps. It would probably be easier to size to .427 (44-40) first then down to .423. I have the RCBS AmmoMAster, so leverage is no problem. They are plenty accurate @ about 22200fps. RL15 or sim. burning rate powder works fine. Recoil is mild in my 10# rifle.
For the RUM case, I partial size them in my Redding die so that it just fits in the chamber w/ some effort closing the bolt. Use a lot of lube & go in stages (have stuck a case twice). I use 27grIMR4227, little piece of Dacron, CreamofWheat filler & a candlewax plug. I did this just to see how they worked, feed & function fine, even though the rim is a tiny bit smaller. I wouldn't hunt w/ them but they make fine, inexpensive practice brass or dummy rounds.

Superior Ammo also loads for the .404 Jefferey......

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there is absolutly no need for a big magnum action, thats a waste of a good action that would be better suited to a 416 Rigby or better yet a 500 or 505...Standard M-98 Mausers, or FNs make nice light well balanced 404s

Very good point.

All of the current "factory" produced ammo is very expensive. Handloading brings this old round to life anyway. 400gr bullets @ 2200fps are managable & very accurate, quite lethal as well. If you are recoil numb like Ray, you can crank them up to 2500fps for a really big hammer. Now come on Federal/Hornady, make us some affordable bullets & ammo.

http://www.kynochammunition.co.uk/

CONNECTICUT SHOTGUN MANUFACTURING CO
of 35 Woodland Street, New Britain, CT 06051-1692
Tel 1 800 515 4867, Fax 860 832 8707
Website : http://www.connecticutshotgun.com
Email : galazan@aol.com
have taken on the Kynoch Agency for the USA.

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Reloading the .404 Jeffery
by Keith Luckhurst
http://www.african-hunter.com/reloading_the__404_jeffery.htm

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J. Roberts & Son (Gunmakers) Ltd
22 Wyvil Road, London, SW8 2TG.
http://www.jroberts-gunmakers.co.uk/

"In 1984 we amalgamated with John Rigby & Co, Britain's longest established gun and rifle makers and assembled our own team of gunsmiths. In 1997 the Rigby name was sold to a US gunmaker whilst we continued to produce fine guns under the J Roberts & Son brand for our traditional big-game hunting and game shooting market. In 2000 we acquired the sole manufacturing rights for WJ Jeffery & Co, one of Britain's most innovative gunmakers, having introduced the most popular big-game calibres such as .404 and .500 Jeffery."

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-Bob F.

This year RWS reintroduced the .404 Rimless in 400 grs softpoint and solid, both at 705 m/s or 2310 fps.
RWS in German

Boha

Whats the heaviest factory .44 mag bullet around ??

I have big aussie made zero press so sizing down should not be to hard.

For jacketed, it's the 300gr.

RWS made ammo the last time I checked and so does Kynamco in UK, Wolfgang Romey in Germany. Norma provides brass and brass can also be had from Bertram in Australia, Stewart in South Africa. Bullets are available from Rhino (SA), GS Custom (SA), Claw (SA), Woodleigh (Aust). It is a good cartridge. You being American can probably use .375 RUM brass despite slight rebate of RUM rims. Not as versatile as .416 Rigby due to lesser case capacity, but it delivers a 400gr bullet from a 24" barrel at 2,300 fps with ease and that is all you need for dangerous game hunitng. Stops anything any .416 stops with similar shots. Case not entirely efficient by modern standards (overly long neck and shallow shoulder ahead of reasonable taper) but it feeds very well and can be had in standard magnum length actions (same as .375 H&H Mag). Quite easy on bullets. I own one built on Double Square Bridge Mauser action (Vektor version) and I enjoy it very much. Long history of excellent results on African big game. Can consider it very similar in performance to .416 Rem Mag. I do not visit forums often - so maybe we will now lose contact.