405 bullets are too short to shoot well in that rifle. You have an 18" twist and will be better off with .450 to 550 gr bullets. Really not much less than 475 or 500 is really worth shooting anyway. 405s are for harrassing the neighbor's cat.

The powder you are starting with would not be my choice at all. Forget the smokeless, you just do not need it. Swiss 1.5 fg is the powder of choice these days, but Goex 2fg is a fine powder as well. You will need a lube - probably SPG. Forget about Alox.

The crecent buttplate is fine, you just need to seat the rifle properly on your shoulder. Most folks that do not like the crecent either don't know how to hold it, or are sloppy or both. On the other hand, you may find it rather short - if so, a lace on leather pad will extend the pull length.

The Pedersoli is a fine rifle. It will do whatever needs getting done, but it was made to shoot lead and blackpowder. If you want to shoot copper and white powder get a modern rifle - there just isn't any point to shooting smokeless in a Sharps. It makes no nevermind whether it is as strong, stronger or weaker than a Ruger #1. It is strong enough for 5 lifetimes of shooting. Original Sharps are still going strong, for those that can afford them.

Whatever your supply needs are, www.buffaloarms.com will have it (except powder). They are nice folks and if you tell them you are a rookie, they will help a lot on the phone.

One more thing, you can reload bp in most any measure I have ever seen. I use a Redding or a Lyman measure, RCBS works fine as well. BP is not as dangerous as mythology would have you believe. On the other hand, I'd not light up a cigarette while I was reloaing either, but then I don't smoke.

Brent

"405's are for harrassing the neighbors cat", must be a fair size kitty! That's a good one Brent, I'll have to remember that line!

No, the 405s are just light fodder suitable for lesser things than big game. Why people think of them as a "heavy" bullet is a mystery to me. I took out a wild tomcat that was harrassing me and mine this spring with a .38-55/250, but that was stunt hunting, kin to taking a cape buff with a .45-70/500. Luckily, I made the left-eye shot and it all came out okay, but strictly a stunt.

Seriously, I do not think that 405 gr bullets will give the best accuracy in a gun that is purpose (18 twist) built to shoot 500+ gr bullets.


Brent

Brent,
while I don't have a huge amount of 458 experience, just a 450 marlin, 45/70, 458 win, and 450 alaskan, I find the 405s to be of the MOST accurate bullets.. I believe partly due to their thin jacket and good engagement.

405s are CHEAP to shoot...

as for thos not liking a cresent butt plate bc they are lazy or wrong? HEH... a gentle and laughing "bite me" ... I have two pedersoli's.. with the metal plate... 58 cal doubel front stuffers, and I believe I know how to hold them.. and how to hold other big bores... and the certain fact is, loaded to the same recoil, the steel SUCKS into my arm... of course, i am running them 1300+fps with 600 gr maxi's...

cheers buddy... let's get him shooting this thing.. then he can play with "stunts" like BP

jeffe

I'd like to second the FFG black powder, 500 gr smitzer load suggested above. That will shhot great! I also use about 10 grs of FFFg behind a Fed 215 primer and add the FFG through a drop tube.Spg Lube and away you go for 2 ich open sight groups at 100 yrds and 5-7 inch groups at 500 yrds! No kidding!-Rob

[quote They are made to shoot off your arm. Perhaps you known this, but most people do not.

There is a purpose to that design and it goes back to how muzzleloaders were made to shoot with their seemingly excessive drop, short LOP, and severely curved butts.

Brent

---

Brent
<sheepish grin> I did NOT know that they where meant to shoot ofthe arm.. OUCH... my pedersoli definately is a shotgun style... I couldn't imagine that little bugger on top of my bicep... I've seen one of my hunting buddies to THAT too often with a 450 marlin... the guy can hurle 50 fromthe right spot... on in the arm, and it's a black cresent.

Brent,
I'ld like to see someone do that.. shoot of the arm... that would be nifty to see.. and see if i could do it....

<back to the ranks of the ignorant for me today>

jeffe

Brent, I believe I will take exception to your comment that any powder dispenser is safe with BP. The static electric charge which can be created will ignite BP. A dipper and weighing are the safe and sane accepted methods of loading.

Jeffe. I too was unaware that the Crescent plate was meant to be shot off the arm. I believe I am going to go back over my old hand loader magazines and read Harve Donaldson for awhile. He was the last of the great Scheutzen guys and I think way back in the 60's he wrote about the techniques used for the metal plates. I would hate to think I have been shooting wrong all these years.

Frank

Jeffe,

Do you know what a Swiss, or Helms, or similar hooked buttplate is like? It works on the same principle as the crecent buttplate. If you put it in your shoulder like your dgr rifles, it might punch a hole right through it. The hook of the crecent goes under your arm to help balance the weight of the barrel out front. On heavy, long barrels like the old muzzleloaders, old schuetzen rifles, etc, they are so front heavy that they need a hook to catch under something (your arm) and make them balance. This is even worse when shooting with a palmrest of with a classic offand stance that pulls your elbow up against your ribs. I can find a few pictures on the net I think. www.ballardrifles.com should have several.



Here, is an example. Imagine how you would hold this rifle, then hold the crecent butt rifle in the same position. The buttplates are made to function in the same way, but the pictured rifle is just more extreme







Frank, the plastic measure/static electricity/bp explosion myth is exactly what I'm talking about. It is a myth. I've loaded for 10 yrs now with a Lyman 55 purpose made for black powder and having a plastic hopper, and now I use a Redding BR-?, also with a plastic hopper. Many people have tested this dozens of times, and there is even a website dedicated to testing this website dedicated to testing this. You can't do it w/o a cigarette in your mouth.







Put on your wool/nylon socks, drag your feet across your carpet and then touch a single granual of powder on a well grounded metal plate and you will see a spark but no ignition.



If none of that will convince you, stop by one of our twice-monthly matches and watch 10 guys on the line at a time, breech seating (and thus loading) with plastic hopper measures and bp.



And just in case you think I hang out with a bunch of nuts, take a look at the containers that Swiss powder comes in (and also the now extinct Elephant brand Brazilian powder). They are plastic. I have 20 of them on myself right now.



Plastic and bp are not gonna hurt you. Really.



Brent

Thanks for all the input gentlemen! If I load black powder do I have to paper patch?

Thanks,
ASS_CLOWN

Jeffe, I have no doubt at all that you know how to shoot your big guns. I am also equally sure, I don't know how to shoot them. However, all of your bolt rifles and, I believe your Pedersoli doubles also, have shotgun style butts. If you shoot a rifle with a crecent buttplate in the same position as you do your .458 megablasters with their shotgun type butts, it will hurt you even my litttle .38-55 Win 1885 will bite well enough to leave a good bruising if shot incorrectly. They are made to shoot off your arm. Perhaps you known this, but most people do not.

There is a purpose to that design and it goes back to how muzzleloaders were made to shoot with their seemingly excessive drop, short LOP, and severely curved butts.

As for shooting 405s, if you get them to be accurate, more power to you, but the Pedersoli in question is an 18" twist barrel (unless it is a particularly old Pedersoli), and I, and most everyone I know who shoots these types of rifles a lot, do not get bullets shorter than a 450 gr lead bullet to shoot straight. "Overstabilization" appears to be the culprit. Once bullets reach about 450 or 475 grs, they shoot better. I swage my bullets which allows me to make them any length I wish, so I just keep shortening and shortening until they fail to shoot well, and that happens around 450 grs.

For what it's worth, the most fanatical of .45 shooters for accuracy, that I know of are the slug-gun bench shooters. Using false muzzle rifles, closed ignition systems and on and on, they typically find that the most accurate bullets in these velocities will be about 3:1 length:width ratio (interestingly the perferred ratio for many broadheads as well). This works out to be about a 550 gr bullet with a 16-20" twist, most settling on 18" twists.

Brent

350 gr Speers were accurate in my wildcat 458, as well as
405 gr. Great deer bullets.Twist he has is a little faster than needed but will be fine.For ball powders with those two bullets he can start with 90% fill of WW-748, and go up.
Could get some slow and fast WC-852 surplus, save a lot of money.Use Fed 215 Mag primers with those ball powders.Use
Use WW-760 & H-414 or WC-860 surplusf or real heavy bullets.
Always chrono the loads. Ed

I am impressed. The experiments web site was like a mythbuster on call. I have to admit to still being a bit worried that mine will be the one time it does explode so I think I will stay with the dip and measure but I do admire your proof as being valid.
Concede.
Frank