I'm shocked. I've been trying to buy a new 375 H&H Sako 75 Deluxe in the Dallas - Ft. Worth area and can't find one. The best promise I've been given is November. That doesn't work for me. I need it in about six weeks.

Same problem with a Browning A-Bolt Medallion.

Are guns getting that hard to order anymore?

There are several for sale on http://www.gunsamerica.com, cheapest is $949.

Guns America does have three that sound interesting. Have you or anyone you know used Guns America?

You might also check out http://www.gunbroker.com/ -- just type in 375 H&H in the search box and you will find many for sale ... including a Browning Belgian Medalion (it's used but a fine rifle in anyone's book)

I've bought a couple rifles off GA with good luck. You buy from an individual or a shop, so I guess it's always a crapshoot, but in my experience it's no worse than buying from someone here on AR, and I've had good luck with that. I recommend it if you like the rifle and the price. Just insist on a 3-day inspection period to make sure you know exactly what you're getting.

I buy stuff all the time off gunsamerica, gunbroker & auctionarms. Always communicate with the seller before you buy or bid, preferaby by phone, to get a thorough description, also insist on a 3-day inspection/return privilege if used.

So far you have been blessed...Buy a used Browing Safari, a pre 64 M-70 or a Whitworth Express if the first two are too expensive...

Kensco
Go to Rays Hardware in Dallas and buy a Blaser R 93 in 375.
They always work.

Champlin Arms has a Sako Safari Grade -- not new but represented as about 95%.

Maybe you can get Rays or someone else to take delivery for you?

What's wrong with a CZ 550? They are all over the internet.

NE450No2

Ray's was always my go-to place, I bought my 300 WSM there, but they quite frankly haven't been very helpful on this project. I'm going to go another direction. Ray's wants to sell me what they've got, not what I want.

I may end up at Bass Pro or Cabela's. McClelland's and I are still talking.

What's the main difference between a Sako Finnbear and a Sako 75?

I've had my son looking for me. He's come back and says he likes the look of a Remington 700 APR in 375 H&H.

I think Saeed mentioned liking this gun. Any thoughts?

Hendershots have a Rem 700 African Big Game Rifle

http://www.hendershots.net/gunview.asp?GunID=191

They are about the same price as the APR but much heavier barrel and in addition they have the in line feed magazine and open sights.

The APR is a staggered feed magazine and has all steel floor plate assembly. You can buy an HS Precision in line feed magazine that would fit the APR

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Mike378:
Hendershots have a Rem 700 African Big Game Rifle

http://www.hendershots.net/gunview.asp?GunID=191

The bolt handle will fall off, the extractor will break and the gun will have accidental discharges. No joke.

CZ 550 American Safari is a good gun. I have it chambered in 416 Rigby. Highly recommend the laminated stock and have it bedded. I really love the set trigger for the big bores.

500,

If you go this site's Gunsmithing forum then over time two things will become obvious:

1) Lots and lots of postings associated with feeding problems and CRF

2) Virtually zero postings on broken Rem 700 extractors and bolt handles falling of Rem 700s

I have owned many Rem 700s and have never experiences a bolt handle coming off or a broken extractor. Of course that does not mean it does not happen. I have been told Rem 700s can break the extractor around the rivot. I have also been told that the Remington agent in Australia carries bolt handles in stock.

On the 30/06 bolt face Rem 700s without the rivoted extractor I have had a hot load and the bolt rotated around the extractor.

The bolt handle if it is a worry can have other means of attachment done as the gunsmith on 24HourCampfire does with the 3 screws.

The in line feed will always be more reliable than CRF staggered feed.

Personally, I am not at all fond of Rem 700s and the rivoted extractor makes me break out in hives. I would prefer a Model 70 to Rem 700 but that is just what I like. But having a preference for the M70 does not make it feed as good as the in line feed on Rem 700s.

Other pluses the Rem 700 has compared to the Mauser crap is huge recoil lug and a huge amount of stock material behind the recoil lug and in addition the tang sits on top of the wood.

Mike

Mike

You might be interested to read some of the postings a countryman of yours has been making on 24hour lately.



http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?C...arch=true#Post531406



He claims the Remington extractors usually break in 2 when they are riveted in and if removed will fall out in a couple of pieces.

Personally , I would not bother with the expense of a HS magazine system if I wanted a M700 in 375 as more than likely it will feed fine as is and the M700 is just not worth it . In my view , detachable magazines would also suck if you were out in the African bush .


This aussie also seems to like the big Weatherbys quite alot . You sure you are not posting under a new alias ? (grin)

sdgunslinger,

No, that is not me But I know who it is and he bought a 460 of me several years ago and he now lives in America. I think he married an American woman.

By best shooting mate has a few Rem 700 based rifles that have the HS Precision magazine and they sure do work.

As a side note he had 2 Jewell triggers break. The first one was about 12 months ago and the top piece that would be the sear in a normal trigger broke. Just recently the second Jewell broke and this was inside the trigger and appeared as if the Jewell's sear had broke. Both triggers were bought together several years ago.

The main problem I have seen with Rem 700s is poor primary extraction which Jack Belk said was due to incorrectly placed bolt handles. They often have chewed out extraction cams on thr Stainless models. A warm load, of tired brass and straight sided cases can mkean lifting the bolt and then having to knock it back. Weatherbys have the same problem but of course in their case the 54 degree bolt lift is the culprit.

Mike

Mike,

A fallen off bolt handle, broken extractor or accidental discharge can really screw up an expensive hunt.

And these things do happen with a R700.

When you read responsible recommendations for CZ's and Model 70's, they come with advice to take the gun to a good gunsmith before using it.

500,

But the bolt handle can be fixed on the Rem 700. A Sako extractor can be fitted.

The bedding configuration of the Rem 700 means a much lower chance of any stock splitting issues and also freedom from barrel recoil lugs on quite large calibers. Then in line feed is easy done with HS Precision magazine and comes standard on Rem 700 African Big Game Rifle.

While I personally don't like Rem 700s it would appear if they have a trip to the gunsmith the outcome will better than either M70 or CZ.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Mike378:
it would appear if they have a trip to the gunsmith the outcome will better than either M70 or CZ.

Mike

Only if the gunsmith is competent to work on Rems but incompetent to tweak CRF guns. A well done CRF is second place only to a double. Of course within the CRF category, Mausers take first place over CZ or M70.

500,

We will have to agree to disagree on in line PF Vs CRF staggered feed.

There are of course two basic points of view. The CRF is less dependent on the operator BUT the in line PF will mechanically always be better at cycling the cartridges and doubly so if 458 Win type calibres are used with blunt bullets and/or there are case dimension problems.

Personally I would be happy with either if done right and my selection of CRF staggered feed or in line PF would be determined by calibre, if the rifle was expensive.

An expensive 375 H&H for me would have to be CRF and of course ditto for 404 Jeffery. But I would not want a custom 404 on the M70...it would have to be a Mauser. But I would not want a 30/378, 378 or 460 on a Mauser or a 300 RUM or 375 RUM on a Mauser. Not for any mechanical reasons...just a case of what I think is good.

I don't personally have any hobby horses with actions or rifles. I like them all if they are done right BUT all of them have faults. If I had the money I would have safe 1 with Wbys via the custom shop and safe 2 with Ryan Breeding rifles. Actually the Ryan Breeding rifles are one rifle if on the Granite I think I could have in either 378 or 460.....

Mike

Mike,

I think you are mixing apples and oranges.

A good gunsmith can take a CRF rifle, such as one of the new reproduction double square bridge Mausers, and build you a vertical stack in-line feed magazine. They do it for 425 WRs and 500 Jefferys. I had such an arrangement on my .585 nyati. All you have to to is ask, and that system will be provided to you. Then you can have CRF and your preferred magazine arrangement.

CRF and vertical stack feed are not mutually exclusive.

Nor are PF and staggered feed.

500

I am well aware that you can have CRF and in line feed combined. Several of the 500 Jefferies done in Australia have been done that way.

HOWEVER, the case rim still needs to get under the extractor.

As far as "short stroking the bolt" or whatever one wants to call it, I am just the opposite and would be in the area of breaking the bolt stop My guess is that most people are that way and if that was not the case then the 303 SMLE would never had seen the light of day.

But as I said in my previous post....I like all the rifles if they are well done and the calibre would determine which action I had.

As you know I have not been to Africa but I strongly suspect that Africa would not turn up any suprises compared to shooting in Australia in summer. The volume of shooting in Africa even at its best is very small. Having said that it could be a case that high volume shooting also means that each animal has far less importance and "fuckups" could go unoticed.

Mike

Mike, it's possible that fuckups during high volume pig, donkey or 'roo shooting in Oz would go unnoticed because there is no particular bad consquence. So what if a kangaroo gets away. We are not talking about a 45" sable escaping on the last day. Nor is some bloke likely to get hooked and tossed as a result. I suspect that fuckups that occur in Africa receive a lot more attention and are talked about for years both in safari camp by the PHs and back in the U.S. both because of the money spent and the potential danger.

Back when Utah had jackrabbits, I would shoot 500 to 700 rounds in a day (95%+ running shots) and probably kill 100 rabbits per day. Typically I limited myself to 100 rounds of centerfire ammo, such as .270, followed by the rest through a Ruger 10/22. Every magazine for the 10/22 which was not an original Ruger 10 round mag went into the garbage because all of them would jam eventually. This included 30 and 50 round Butler Creek and other brands. I also tried it with a Ruger Mini 14 .223 and that gun completely sucked. Other than with the factory 5 round magazine, it was not reliable. I suspect others who actually fired their rifles a lot had the same experience, But there was no consequence to me other than irritation so it is not worth making a big fuss over.

With more than 3000 rounds through a military Mauser 98 converted to .270, not a single fuckup. No misfires, no jams, no failure to eject, nothing wrong! My hunting buddy's Browning A-bolt was a fuckup though. It worked for enough shots to get through a deer season, but there was no way he could get through 2 hours of rabbit hunting with it, so he eventually just stuck to a Ruger 10/22 because it was trouble free.

In contrast, I put 13,000 rounds through a Ruger 22 with no trouble (other than the aftermarket clips), sold it for what I paid used ($135), bought a new one for $150 and kept going.

quote:

So what if a kangaroo gets away.

No one gives a fuck The backup weapon usually drives through all 4 wheels

But you have a strong bias to CRF and Mauser in particular. In my opinion there is no action better to watch working than a staggered feed CRF.

But reality creeps into the game. I will bet you that a Wby Safari out of the box is more likely to be trouble free than either an Empire Domoulin or Dakota African chambered in 450 Dakota or 450 Rigby or 460 Wby in the case of the Empire. The Wby Safari in its standard form is a $1000US dearer but I don't think that is the reason. I would also bet that a standard 460 Deluxe would be more trouble free out of the box than either Empire or Dakota and the standard Deluxe 460 will cost only half or less of the Dakota or Empire.

The bottom line is that the in line feed PF simply needs less going its way for it to work.

If ALL rifles were in line feed PFs then Echols would be out of business.


By the way, the most reliable staggered feeders are rifles like the Weatherby and 303 SMLE that use the magazine to control everything.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Mike378:

If ALL rifles were in line feed PFs then Echols would be out of business.

And I would be a bowhunter.

quote:

And I would be a bowhunter.

It must be a strain to be so locked into one action type.

But how do you think Wby, Empire and Dakota would compare out of the box. You already know that the odds are stacked in Wby's favour and for the simple reason of in line feed PF. You also know that the Wby has a big tang that sits on top of the wood.

How many and for how long has Weatherby made big kicking rifes as compared to Dakota, Empire, Johannsen (Spelling)

On a big kicking rifle why would someone buy an action that has a tang designed to split the stock, a tiny recoil lug that has been moved back on the action so as to reduce the amount of stock material behind the recoil lug?

Mauser is fine for 7 X 57 etc. After that it is all romance and bullshit

When Mauser made his action he never considered calibres like 458 Win loaded with blunt bullets. He never considered big kicking calibres. He never considered different case head dimensions.

The M54 put a proper recoil lug on the action and the M70 moved the front screw back to the centre of the bedding platform.

Mauser is European shit. Long Live America and bring back the Saturn V rocket!!!

Mike

Mike,

I am not very concerned about how guns work rigth out of the box, because I would never run off and hunt DG with one that way.

Would you buy a car from the local auto dealer and then enter it in the Baja 1000 or the Indy 500 without a few modifications?

500,

A first for me is bedding and floating and I could not care how it shoots out the box, that will happen anyway.

However, when it comes to reliability there are a couple of aspects that I think have some importance.

One of them is the assessment of the rifle in terms of what the average bloke will get who is not into modifying the rifle. Secondly, given that most factory stuff is not all that well made then reliability out of the box will tend to indicate a design that is more likely to work even if the rifle is not well made.

As I have already said, if I was getting an expensive 375 H&H, say at least $4000AUS to $5000US as the starting point I would have CRF and probably M70. An expensive Weatherby or a wood stocked HS Precision would not even get off the ground with me. But I would not kid myself that the M70 CRF could ever match the HS Precision PF in line feed. But I would be able to have the M70 CRF as a fully functioning rifle so "more" would not be needed and I would not have the expectation of 100% functioning with 300 Hornadys loaded backwards and with very rapid bolt closure. Sure, it might work OK with them but it would always be closer to jamming than the HS Precision.

Actually if I listen to the Double Rifle supporters then with dangerous game all bolt actions are only single shots.

Mike

Confirmed. The order is enroute. I got the last new Sako 75 Deluxe in 375 H&H from http://www.impactguns.com in Utah. My fall-back 75 Deluxe was at http://www.eurochasse.com in Connecticut.

A lot tougher than I thought it would be to find what I wanted. Never did locate a new Browning A-Bolt Medallion.

Glad to hear you finally got what you were looking for.