Any of the 400 Whelen or 405 Winchester folks used sized 350 grain Speer .416 bullets to take deer sized game?
I just made [sized .411 at the base] and shot some in my 405 Belted. accuracy is good and speed is 2373 fps. just want to know how they will expand on a deer or black bear? Or are the to hard?

I have shot several heads of game deer, bear, hogs and a porcupine with .416 350gr speer mag tips MV 2450fps.

The only one I recovered was from a 500lb black bear shot at 40 yards.

It gave be 39 inches of penetration expanded well and weighed in the 290gr range.

Yes they are very hard for deer and black bear.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Yes they are very hard for deer and black bear.

The game animals I shot with them didn't seem to notice.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Yes they are very hard for deer and black bear.

The game animals I shot with them didn't seem to notice.

I use our own Walterthog bullets, which I make here in our workshop on our CNC lathe.

Made of pure copper rod.

We have been using them on all sorts of African animals, from the tiny dik dik to eland and cape buffalo.

Never failed.

And despite all the bullshit arm chair writers have been saying that these bullets are too hard for cats, I have shot literally dozens of lions and leopards with them.

Non of them went very far.

A bullet needs to do some damage, how hard it is, is immaterial.

If you are concerned about expansion try Hornady's .411 300gr or perhaps a Hawk bullet they are classic cup and core come in two jacket thickness'

MoreBS, I have drawn down a few of the Speer 350s but found I had to do it in a vise, even using Imperial sizing die wax. I haven't had a chance to try them on anything yet, and am as curious as you are about their performance on deer-sized game. I would expect them to be too tough to be ideal. Guessing they might work well on hogs, though.

quote:

I would expect them to be too tough to be ideal. Guessing they might work well on hogs, though.

Less Ideal then what they do expand on deer as far as I can tell 416 hole going bigger hold going out.

Your putting a least a 40 cal hole into critters.

I would not be afraid to use them at all.

Just trying to use up some old stock.

I don't have a .416 at the moment.

I have .411 300 Hawks and some .416 300s.

The .416 Hawk 300 at 2500 fps will nearly blow a leg off a deer. But they are very accurate.

Killed 4 deer with the .411 300 Hawks, at 2150 fps, just what you would expect. 50 cent size exit hole.

been turning down some 250 Mono flex, 458s. They end up at 208 grain. Cut a cross section, they may work, but they are a lot of work to cut them down.

I have not tried any of my shortened TSX 210s. The 270s shot like crap.[only one load tried]

sounds like the 350s will be Hog bullets. A friend just shot one that dressed at 360#s with a subsonic 300 Blackout. Took two shots.

Probably the perfect bullet for a Texas Heart Shot![350]

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
MoreBS, I have drawn down a few of the Speer 350s but found I had to do it in a vise, even using Imperial sizing die wax. I haven't had a chance to try them on anything yet, and am as curious as you are about their performance on deer-sized game. I would expect them to be too tough to be ideal. Guessing they might work well on hogs, though.

Bill, the key is to size at the top of the stroke in the Rock Chucker. You may need an adaptor to get your size die higher. Then crank it down a 1/2-1 turn at a time. I use Rooster Red bullet lube. One pass from 416 to 411. My home made die has only 1 degree of leed, not sure if that helps.

If bullets that do not expand at all are so great then why did all the bullet companies even bother with the hundreds of bullets that were developed to actually expand?
Because just punching a hole in an animal will not always quickly kill it. Even at .40 caliber. Of course, sometimes it will......
And why are expanding bullets banned by the 1899 Hague Accords?
Because they cause too much tissue damage.
No need for a reply; everyone knows best what to do.

With CFE Black at 95% the 208 Mono Flex hits 2975 fps. and groups about 2". need to try some H4198.

I did it when I first had my 400 Whelen. I thought the readily available .416 bullets would be a good option. In my opinion it's way more trouble than it's worth.

I was using a Lee bullet sizer and I had to start with the die a ways out so I could use the mechanical advantage of the top of the stroke on my Rockchucker. Then screw the die down a little more with the bullet in it, and run the ram up again. It would normally take two adjustments to get the bullet all the way through the sizing die. I haven't tried any of the CH4D bullet sizing dies. They are shorter and may be able to do all the sizing at the end of the stroke where you have the most mechanical advantage.

IMHO opinion just buy some .411 Hawk 350 grain or some Swift 350 grain A frame and don't mess around with resizing .416s.

quote:

Originally posted by mart:
I did it when I first had my 400 Whelen. I thought the readily available .416 bullets would be a good option. In my opinion it's way more trouble than it's worth.

I was using a Lee bullet sizer and I had to start with the die a ways out so I could use the mechanical advantage of the top of the stroke on my Rockchucker. Then screw the die down a little more with the bullet in it, and run the ram up again. It would normally take two adjustments to get the bullet all the way through the sizing die. I haven't tried any of the CH4D bullet sizing dies. They are shorter and may be able to do all the sizing at the end of the stroke where you have the most mechanical advantage.

IMHO opinion just buy some .411 Hawk 350 grain or some Swift 350 grain A frame and don't mess around with resizing .416s.

How well do the 350 Hawks shoot and preform?

Rusty McGee filled me in on how to do it.
Get a cheap 1-ton arbor press from Harbor Freight
for $58.99, way less than at Amazon.com for same:




Use RCBS Case Lube 2, a light coating as simple as rolling the bullets on a lube pad is all it takes.
It is water soluble and clean up is a snap.
Bullets are squeaky clean after a water rinse.

Lee dies or CH4D dies, either work fine for bullet sizing.

Accuracy is good with the .416/350-grain Speer sized down to .411/350-grainer.
I have not used them on game, just paper.

By the Rusty McGee Method (RMM) I easily change .416-caliber/350-gr TTSX bullets into .411, .410, or .408 caliber bullets.

The .416-caliber monometal copper bullets need to be sized down to .002" smaller than final caliber desired.
Use reductions of no more than .004" at a step.
To go from .416" to .408": Takes 3 dies, .412", .408", .406".

.416" >>> .412" >>> .408" >>> .406"
Then let them sit overnight: .408" final diameter.

The world is your oyster with RMM.

Rip ...

RIP, Thanks!

With H4198, I am hitting just over 3000 FPS with the 208 Monoflex and the 210 TSX.

That is a point blank of over 300 yds.

I need to make a shorter throat barrel!

To start with big bores don't normally kill PG and light bodied animals as efficiently as a med. bore such as a 270 or lighter caliber in that the big bore bullets are not designed to expand on light small animals,so they act as a solid and the antelope or whatever makes many tracks...As to solids its the same story, but both leave good blood trails and are recovered fairly easy..Ive used solids in Africa for the pot, as the hunters are out hunting buffalo or Hippo, lions, whatever..The meat is not blood shot nor wasted with a big bore solid..

When you squeeze a big bullet down to a smaller bullet, you have tampered with its jacket design to expand in many cases they are less than dependable..However I would not hesitate to use them on light game inasmuch as the caliber itself is large of cross section..ONe thing that's positive and that is a solid works best the larger the cross section,at least on the big stuff and surely on the smaller stuff also, it simply makes a bigger hole to allow air in the body cavity to push the blood out..

An exception in solids on PG and even to a lesser extent on DG, a solid can be effective on light game under one condition other than head and spine shots and that is to break both shoulders, that gives a lot of bone splinters and puts the animal down regardless, Its fairly easy shot to make also..

Some of the TSX bullet shortened.

Nice work.

Rip ...

Today's 3 shots of the 210s:

quote:

Originally posted by MoreBS:
Today's 3 shots of the 210s:

Can't see any image(s) there.
Would like to use your previous image of .411/300-gr TSX shortening as inspirational material on the seemingly-never-ending .458 WIN thread,
for THE MISSION.
Thanks.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by MoreBS:
Today's 3 shots of the 210s:

Can't see any image(s) there.
Would like to use your previous image of .411/300-gr TSX shortening as inspirational material on the seemingly-never-ending .458 WIN thread,
for THE MISSION.
Thanks.

Rip ...

Sure, use the image, tried to redo the target above.

Wired up the old trash can. The sides are blown out in two slits!
31"s of water and 2.1/2"s of dirt.
Fired at 2375 off the deck, down into the water.
A plastic bag and a layer of card board...very important!!!

quote:

Originally posted by MoreBS:

Wired up the old trash can. The sides are blown out in two slits!
31"s of water and 2.1/2"s of dirt.
Fired at 2375 off the deck, down into the water.
A plastic bag and a layer of card board...very important!!!

That will kill a lot of critters

Its all good conversation but the bottom line is a big bore solid "usually" kills well on small game like deer size..they run a bit and leave a blood trail and don't waste much meat, but sometimes they run a bit more!! An option is to break both shoulders or even one and that's pretty quick as a rule..Are they as good or better than a soft, probably not. Im sorta wishy washy on this subject, the more I used them the more confusing it got, and I tend to contradict myself on the subject and various experts flame me for it..oh well Im sure they know all. The best I can come up with today is most of the time solids work well on camp meat and a lot of that depends on how big a solid you use, a solid in my .470 killed all PG on the spot best I recall, but a solid in a 30 caliber not so well..I think solids for PG start with the .375..maybe the 9.3..????