With the imminent introduction of the CZ .505 Gibbs and Norma's likely announcement of quality Gibbs brass, has anyone any intimation of a more economical die set to feed the monster? I mean, even though we know that factory ammunition will be astronomical (barring some miracle from Federal or someone) and will by necessity become handloaders, those of us who already haven't been so for years, have you checked the price of RCBS .505 die sets? Whoosh, if I may venture an exclamation! Any other suggestions?

CH4D will run $161 for the three die set but you will need a press that takes the larger bushing they sell for about $14.

Would the Rockchucker work? If I had to buy a new press to hold the "more economical" die, I'd lose money on the deal!

Rockchucker works. You just unscrew the 7/8" bushing at the top of the press (warning, takes really big crescent wrench, measure bushing nut before going to store for wrench), and screw in the bigger one that you ordered from Huntington/RCBS. I'm pretty sure the Rockchucker will tolerate the 3.75" COAL well too. I have a little trouble with this because I persist in loading those long .50 BMG projectiles into my .51 Gibbs, presently being restocked. I have to unscrew the die a little bit to get my loaded round back.

It's a bit early to be ordering powder until CZ gets a little closer to putting the rifles on the shelves, but I think WC 852 (slow variant) will turn out to be a really good, affordable powder for the round.

My CH4D dies in 404 Jeffery screw right into my RCBS Rockchucker press as easy as RCBS dies.

At what point (caliber) do you need a different bushing?

Ga,
it's about .475 caliber... they go to 1" die bodies.. and the price goes up some.. I think 470 NE can be hand either way, but a 500 XXX can't.... the bushing is all of like 15 bucks

jeffe

My .470 dies are std 7/8x14 dies..

I suspect there will be a lot of like new 505s on the market shortly after production...Most will shoot the buggers one or two times and send them down the gun show trail!

They are simply haenious in the recoil dept..real people don't like to shoot them, only internet gunners, computers nerds, people who like to inflict pain on themselves, burn themselves with cigeretts, like rough sex, need recognition, and BS'ers seem to handle these calibers with aplomb..

Hey Ray,
I am a Texan... was shooting my son's (too short for me) 458 yesterday, .. 8.25#... and put 10 in 3" at 50y.. taking it in the chin every stroke...

There's a couple out there that CAN shoot them.... most of the time, i'll agree.. they are stuntguns...

jeffe

Sarge,

I've been using an RCBS Junior to reload my .500 A-Sq. now for almost 9 years. You just have to preceed the case with the bullet up the die.

Ray,
A "button" like me is still up to the recoil of the .450 Rigby but I'd rather shoot someone else's .505 before I committed myself. In any case, before I popped a cap on such a behemouth, I'd make sure it weighed at least 11-12 lbs. Still and all, a rechambered Pedersoli Kodiak would probably be a lot more manageable and if I decided to go the Searcy .450/400 I could take a lot of safaris with my .404 while I saved up the dough!

You have no right to disparage rough sex thataway !

Jeez, Ray, don't hold nuttin' back. So tell us how you really feel.

Anyone who holds his own with a .450 Magnum, .458 Lott and such, is likely to do as well with the .505. Every man in camp has shot my Gibbs and hit the black. Far more at the local range have done likewise. All were rather pleased with themselves, expressing surprise at how shootable it was. Good stocking is key. If you don't try, you'll never know what the .50's can give you.

What Nick said.. STOCK!!!

I sooooooooooo much prefer taking it in the shoulder than in the cheek... Last night I was shooting my son's 458... it's 1.5" too short for me... and EVERY round was a crack in the cheek

jeffe

Yea RAY you sure have a bee up your ass about recoil these days. If you don't like it don't do it but knock off all the BS. I've had so many people shoot my 470 Mbogo and express how it wasn't any big deal and they would like to shoot it more often. I don't really remember anyone that thought they were beaten up. The 500 A-Square is a different story. But lots of people can shoot rifles like 458's, Lott's etc. without a problem.

Dave



This is a 125 lb gal that has never shot a big bore before. Starting out with the 45-70 with a 405 grain bullets at 1850 and then the 470 Mbogo with a 500 grain bullets at 2150 fps for a couple of shots.Even though her balance isn't correct she still didn't get beat up and yes she is very keen to go out agian. http://www.470mbogo.com/Katherine%202.mpg

Mbogo,



Hey, quit picking on my buddy.



Just because someone can shoot one of the "beasts" reminds me of Taylor's advice about "just because it can kill."



All this stuff about shooting big bores is highly dependent upon a lot of factors which usually go unstated or undefined, like what is the stock design, how much does the rifle weigh, what is the bullet weight and velocity, how many times was it shot over what length of time, etc.



And there is a hell of a lot of difference between a 500 gr. bullet at 2150 fps and 2300 fps.



It is somewhat akin to the statements you see about "my rifle shoots 3/8" groups."



Please have this 120 lb. gal go to the range and have her sight-in this rifle, say 5 to 10 rounds. Then have her carry it a few miles. Then have her shoot it again, say 5 fast rounds.



I gave up on the Lott because I felt to have manageable recoil, the gun was too heavy for me to lug around. It was similar with the .470 NE, as the stock design had so much drop, it had horrendous recoil.



Any physiologically I could only shoot 5 or 6 rounds, either one, at the range, off-hand, without getting a headache!



When hunting of course the recoil isn't noticed, but is irrelevant when forced to shoot them at the range.



But everyone is different. If the recoil (and bloody noses and gouged fingers ) doesn't bother someone, more power to them. But it just may not be for everyone.



P.S.



It is inbteresting to note in the video that this gal is getting recoil shy right off the bat. She backs up further with every shot.



P.P.S.



I've settled on the 416. It's abusive at less than 8 lbs., but I can carry it.

We all view the subject of recoil in our own way, which is all we really can do. What I don't care for is the poo-pooing of something just because one can no longer do it. No spring chicken when I began the big bore journey, I moved up in caliber as I satisfied myself I was ready to do so, in order to evaluate for myself, the merits of the larger bores. I now know I might have used about any rifle in my younger days, acknowledging the fact that I can't shoot the .505 for as long a session as just short while ago. That said, you'll never hear me discourage a younger, fitter man from making the same journey. Some have enjoyed the blessing of a youthful exposure to the big bores, some a steady diet of experience during the prime of life. Others arrive late on the scene, gleaning what they can in the time they have. Making the effort to widen your big bore experience is up to you, as is the honest assessment of your capabilities at a given time in life. No other can say.

Nick 'ol pal, that's well said. I don't think it could have been put any other way. Since you know how old I am, I can still do limited bench sessions because of my desire and the willingness to take the thumping because IT'S FUN.

Ray I am all of the above mate except the rough sex....where can I get that Either 3way I am going to buy one as soon as they arrive in Australia......I will spotlight foxes with it and the proclaim toeveryone on the internet that the recoil is fine and it's appropriate caliber for that purpose...although my marlin 45/70 will most likely give me greater pentration on larger foxes

You know, it's just not FAIR that these cartridges are not available in left-hand guns!

You guys get to have all the fun!

George

Hey Nick that's absolutely the best thought out piece that anyone has posted on recoil and big bore tolerence shall we call it. The fact that someone should discourage anyone that has a dream or goal really gets under my skin. To help along the way, to encourage and guide someone to the best of your ability to achive their goal only makes sense.

Will when I get time I'm going to take Katherine out again and work up to full loads. She is very keen. After a couple of shots I asked her what she thought of the experience. She replied that she was a little dissapointed that she didn't lean her weight into the shot more and thought that might have been because the rifle felt heavy up front. When I asked her about the recoil she said she wasn't bothered by it as she had been hit harder than that at Karate classes. I guess it all depends on what your made of and where your mind is.
Take good care guys,
Dave

Hey Will, quit pickin' on my buddy!



If you re-read Ray's post, you'll see what got them worked up. Albiet probably jokingly, Ray stated that "Real people don't like to shoot them". I assumed by the smilies that he wasn't really serious, but it isn't the first time he poo-poo'ed recoil lately.



As a "real person" who doesn't mind heavy recoil in the least (at least for the time being ), I have to disagree as well. Recoil is entirely subjective, and more people can tolerate it than is being given credit for. We "recoil junkies" are neither elite nor unique. Nor are we looking for recognition, as was also stated earlier. (Or masochistic, or BS'ers, for that matter....)



I never really liked the term "recoil junkies", because its innaccurate. I am hooked on the horsepower, and the terminal ballistics, not the recoil. The recoil is just a tolerable side effect.



I would like to encourage more people to try said 505 Gibbs. If a few "as new" ones do end up on the market, that's good for those of us that don't have room in the budget for a brand spanky new one!!!!



Cheers,

Canuck

O.K., so we seem to be in agreement that a well designed stock is a necessity. So . . . who (besides the esteemed Chic, who will be backed up for years when this big bugger hits the market) do y'all recommend? Hmmmm???

Oldsarge, if you are serious about building a big bore with a recoil taming stock, email me. But I will not subject a fine stockmaker to the whims of a hotheaded argument on the internet.

PC
"either 3way" hmmm Freudian slip!

Thanx, gents, if I do decide to go this deranged route that McMillan profile is just the bee's knees, don'tcherknow, but I will be lookin' to do 'er in good Bastogne walnut. Makes the weight easier to meet, y'see, and easier to tweak the fit by bendin' or filin'. BTW, the Rigby weighs 10.25 empty and I don't have any problems heftin' it around. Goin' up to 11 doesn't seem unreasonable even given the possibility of walkin' days after jumbo.

.416, no slip mate just in a big bloody rush once again !!

Well I agree with Ray's first paragraph anyway.

Like anything extreme,talkers outnumber users a great deal.

Probably on a forum like this, owners of custom guns and rare calibres are saved from that statistic, since most of us are fairly extreme in our interests to get them in the first place.

These 505s will be available to the average joe in an affordable package.

Maybe won't affect the yanks as much since you guys buy more for purpose.

But a lot of Aussies are going to go from 308win to 505gibbs for a bit of fun and get a rude shock.

Karl.