The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores General suggestions for moderate loads in a 416 RigbyGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
One of Us |
Hi all, I'm going to be starting to load for a 416 Rigby soon and want to start with 450/400 factory load levels of performance/power. Any suggestions for specific powders and loads? Thanks | ||
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| One of Us |
I have had good luck with RL22 and 7828ssc. 102gr under a 400gr Barnes TSX and a Federal 215 primer. It seems that these two powders are pretty near interchangeable in the 416 Rigby. About 2450 fps in my rifle. | |||
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| Administrator |
Basically you can use any slow powder like 4350 4831 Rel 19 and 22. 95-100 grains of these would be a good start. | |||
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| One of Us |
Thank you! | |||
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| Administrator |
My hunting load in both 416 Weatherby and 416 Rigby is 105 grains of H4831 with 400 grain bullets. My own built 416 Rigby Improved shoots both 400 Trophy Bonded Bear Claws and Barnes 400 Super Solids, 3 of each, into a 0.7” six shot group. Shot several lions, elephants and many buffalo with these. | |||
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| One of Us |
Just curious, what kind of velocity with the 400 grain boulet just to have produce. I am sure it is fully up to the task. | |||
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| One of Us |
The rifle will be a Ruger No 1, by the way. I like single shots. | |||
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| One of Us |
I just checked my log book. 102gr is my load for the BBS, but TSX are loaded with 100gr to match velocity and point of impact. These are conservative, with the low pressures and ballistics of the cartridges original specs. | |||
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| one of us |
I load 103 gr H4831 behind 400 gr bullet for hunting load. Chrono at 2490 fps out of my Ruger M77. If you want a great practice load, shoot cast bullets in front of 5744. Same POI out to about 100 yds w/out the blast. Pancho LTC, USA, RET "Participating in a gun buy-back program because you think that criminals have too many guns is like having yourself castrated because you think your neighbors have too many kids." Clint Eastwood Give me Liberty or give me Corona. | |||
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| One of Us |
Have a look at the Hodgdon reloading data online. There are a number of loads that come close to 2200 fps. I have not tried any of them yet but will do the same thing soon. | |||
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| One of Us |
This exact rifle and calibre is my wife's to go rifle. I haven't loaded it yet with American propellants. 89grains of Somchem S365 (when it was still available) gave it a muzzle velocity of 2300fps. It is a sub MOA rifle and has shot 3 different bullets (monolithic and cup&core and Partition) into a 2" 5 shot group. One of our favourite guns with bullets into everything from warthog to elephant. | |||
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One of Us |
I guess I'm confused which is not unusual. The OP was looking for a moderate load for his 416 Rigby, wouldn't that be akin to a 400g bullet traveling at 2100 fps (400 Jeffery nominal load)? A moderate load for my 500 Jeffery would be a 570g bullet at 2150 fps (500 NE level load). Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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| new member |
Yes, exactly. All The Best …  | |||
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One of Us |
Confused, me too. OP wants reduced loads around 2100fps not full power 416 loads at 2400+fps as most replies have given. I load my not dissimilar 404J with 85.0grs IMR4831 for MV of about 2150fps and it is up to original factory POI at this level with the 400gr bullet. My Mauser has quite a bit of freebore, so 85.0 - 90.0grs 4831 in a tighter chambered 416 Rigby would be a good starting point aiming for a reduced load of around 2100fps. | |||
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| One of Us |
It would be akin to a factory load in a 404 Jeff or perhaps slightly more than the 450/400, which I have. Those seem to have worked pretty well over many years on the sort of game I might hunt with a rifle like this, and be more enjoyable to shoot. | |||
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| One of Us |
I shot several Aussie buffalo with my 404 using old Parker Hale factory ammo and my reloads at the original 404J specs. I didn't know much about the big bores back then so just used solids. The 404 flattened every animal I shot with it, big bulls and likewise some big cow buffalos, all without any drama. I suppose bullet wise the 416 calibre is easier to obtain but why go with an underloaded 416 Rigby, why not just a 404 loaded to the original 2100 - 2200 fps level? | |||
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| One of Us |
Not my post but my reason for going down with the 416 rather than just using the 404 is because I have a 416 and do not have a 404. I will keep the 416 and tame it down some. The loads I shoot in it now are closer to 400 gr @ 2500 fps. It has more recoil than I care to deal with these days. | |||
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| One of Us |
A 404 Jeffery would certainly be a great addition. I don’t happen to have one. Since I like the Ruger No. 1, and have never seen one of the rare birds in that caliber, I picked up a 416. I do have a 450/400, which is just the 404 with a rim. The 416 was simply appealing, basically. | |||
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| One of Us |
I have a big jug of surplus 5010 powder and got to wondering how it would work in my Ruger M77 .416 Rigby. I filled the case to the base of the neck, dumped it and weighed then rounded off to an even 110 grs. With a Hornady 400 gr s.p. and F215 primers I got 2290 fps and surprising accuracy. C.G.B. | |||
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| One of Us |
Hornady lists as a starting load with their 400g DGS (which I wouldn't use) of 84.8g of H4831 for 2100 fps. I would start at 90g with a 400g A-Frame chrono it and then think about dropping the load a bit. https://www.hornady.com/assets...basic-rifle-data.pdf Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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My pal and I took 4 rifles to Australia on a buffalo management hunt. One was a 416 Rem with 400gr TSX loaded 2150-2200 range. The penetration was absolutely excellent, and the rifle was a pussycat to shoot. I swear it has less recoil than my 375 H&H shooting 300gr at 2350. If I had tried that rifle years ago, my name here would be Baker416. | |||
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| One of Us |
The original 404 Jeffery loads were about the same (400g at 2150fps), it's reputation was built on that. Don't know why people load it hotter. Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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| one of us |
Actually the 450-400 always been used at 2100 to 2125 fps and still is, thats about max..The 416 Rigby and 404 Jefferys started out at 2100 fps and got a rather poor reputation and had many complaints,contrary to some thinking, so Kynoch and others jumped it up to 2300 fps a big at a time, and all was good and a rep was made.. Your requested load would be 85 grs of IMR-4831 for about 2100 fps, and its a decent enough load IMO and Ive used it on cape buffalo and such, but if I were to hunt with a Rigby or 404 Id go with the 400 gr. bullet at the magic 2400 FPS. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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| One of Us |
Guess I respectfully disagree. I believe the 404 Jeffery gained it's reputation in Africa between 1910 and 1960 where the muzzle velocity with a 400g bullet was 2150 fps. I believe it's only in the past 20 years or so people have regularly loaded it up to 416 Rem or 416 Rigby velocities (400g at 2400 fps). I have no doubt it hits harder at 2400 fps but I also have no doubt it will kill anything with a well placed constructed bullet at 2150 fps. Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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DWM and then RWS have always loaded the 404 to 2400fps and 2330fps respectively so these higher intensity loadings have been available around the same time that Kynoch was producing its loading of 2125fps, all with the 400gr bullet. When Kynoch made the change from cordite to granulated nitro powder sometime in the 60's I am assuming, there was an increase in MV to 2225fps for the 400gr bullet in the 404J. This may not have been an intentional MV increase but rather have been a consequence of obtaining a safe loading density in the big case with the new NC powder (I imagine it was Scottish made Nobel powder). The 5 round packets for this increased velocity ammunition had a paper label glued to the front advising of the likely need to re-zero the rifle indicating this was an expedient measure before new packets were produced. The packet in the image below contains cartridges loaded in 1963, one of which I pulled the bullet from to check the powder type and charge. It contained 78.0grs of powder identical looking to Nobel 1 or 0 powder. At the time I stocked and used these two powders in reloading for other cartridges. I don't think another 100fps MV was going to make any difference to the already good 404J performance. The DWM and RWS loadings will hit harder at both ends.  | |||
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| One of Us |
Thank you for the correction. Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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| One of Us |
I believe Chuck has it about beloved cartridges developing legendary reputations at lower velocities than many think. I've read about this from multiple sources. Kevin Robertson details in his truly excellent book "Africa's Most Dangerous" starting on page 105: "It is now fairly well documented that the old-time ammunition makers stretched the truth about muzzle velocity... 28-inch test barrels and overly tight bores were part of the reason, but so was plenty of gentlemanly 'tounge-in-cheek'... In reality, the various trend-setting calibers developed their 'magical' reputations while producing only about 4,000 ft-lbs of ME, not 5,000..." Same book, P 109, on the 404: "The 416 Rigby may have gathered all the glamour but the 404 Jeffery did all the work out here in Africa... firing a 400gr bullet at 2125fps... Even these sedate figures were probably optimistic, given Kynoch's reputation for stretching the truth (actual muzzle velocities were around 2050fps, I believe)..." He chronographed reprimed original Kynoch 416 Rigby 410gr in a Ruger with a 26" barrel. They were marked 2350 fps, they delivered 2130-2190. Similar with his 505 Gibbs, original ammo, reprimed, 25.5" barrel, almost exactly 2150 fps vs the 2300 advertised. From the Woodleigh Bullets reloading manual, on the 450-400 3": "Most doubles chambered for this cartridge are marked for the 55gr load... (and will) regulate around the 2000fps mark..." The 404J is pretty much the bolt-action ballistic equivalent of the 450-400, so it would make sense if the actual original velocities were right in there. Reading all of this info is why I suggested that my amigo load his 416Rem around 2150. It worked perfectly for us. | |||
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| One of Us |
I had a 450/400 3.25"made by Army n Navy very clearly marked 60 grns cordite, 400 grns bullet! Just fyi | |||
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| one of us |
Just finished light load development for 416 Rigby in a 24" Dakota Arms rifle. Powder was chosen for load density at OBT and QL, as is, matched published data. Hyd. case, Hyd 400gn RN, OAL 3.610, Vih. N165 94.3gn Vel. 2230fps,SD 20fps. Steve | |||
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| One of Us |
I have had 3 416 Rigby rifles. Now I shoot a 416 REM. Loaded to 2300 fps it is easy to shoot and has great penetration. USMC Retired DSC Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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| one of us |
I shot the 404 J and Sweetthang, my beloved 450-400-3" Army/Navy..a 400 gr. w Woodleigh at 2125 to 2150 FPS and it never failed me..My 404 with a 400 gr. bullet at 2350 to 400 fps was a just a better killer, buff shuttered with the hit..but the 404 case has the same powder capacity as a 416 Rigby.. Woodleighs 450 gr. in the 404 or 416 Rig or Rem was the real killer in that crowd of the elite! Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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| One of Us |
I chronoed a few old boxes of knynoch in a 60 grain 450/400 3" with 28" barrels years ago just for grins. Regulated perfectly and averaged 2010fps. I too think there was a lot of truth stretching on the part of ammo makers back when no one had a means to prove them wrong, but as mentioned that means these calibers' reputations were made not just with bullets far inferior to today's choices but also at lower velocities than we perhaps unnecessarily load them to now. Hornady's 450/400 ammo at 2150fps from a 24" barrel gave me a chuckle when it came out but I can understand it would be a bad PR move to announce slower ammo than what was claimed 100 years ago even if it wasn't true then. DRSS "If we're not supposed to eat animals, why are they made out of meat?" "PS. To add a bit of Pappasonian philosophy: this single barrel stuff is just a passing fad. Bolt actions and single shots will fade away as did disco, the hula hoop, and bell-bottomed pants. Doubles will rule the world!" | |||
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One of Us |
The previous comments help to explain why my 1895 .405 WCF kills so well with 300 grain NF at 2250 and 400 grain Woodies at 2100 kill so well. OK with me. NRA Life Benefactor Member, DRSS, DWWC, Whittington Center,Android Reloading Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/ | |||
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| One of Us |
A pilot might say that Actual Velocity is to Advertised Velocity as True airspeed is to Indicated Airspeed. There is a correlation, but everything depends on the details.  I think companies have gotten vastly more honest in the last 2-4 decades or so and toned down their claims as chronographs became common equipment. Just look at numbers on 357 mag, any weatherby caliber, 7mm Rem, etc. DRSS "If we're not supposed to eat animals, why are they made out of meat?" "PS. To add a bit of Pappasonian philosophy: this single barrel stuff is just a passing fad. Bolt actions and single shots will fade away as did disco, the hula hoop, and bell-bottomed pants. Doubles will rule the world!" | |||
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One of Us |
That's exactly the same velocities I'm running in my 411 KDF,,the brown bears bounce off the ground when hit by either one. About 3 weeks ago our Karelians ran a 7'er into my wife and I and a 300gr Woodleigh @ 20' was like a lightening bolt. I tend to use more than enough gun | |||
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| one of us |
Well this summer I decided to partake in some nostalgia, something I haven't done in 49 years...I laid down my bike. Fractured an upper RT rib and my RT clavicle in the process. Those injuries due to a previous issue with my shoulder has me cutting way down on my big bore shooting. I shoot my 416 Rigby at around 2100fps with 400 gr. bullets. Anything above that, for more than a couple of shots, is not on my agenda. There has been some good info given here. | |||
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| One of Us |
I took my 404J to Tanzania with 400 grain Swift A Frames running at 2230 with 74 grains of N-150. It absolutely flattened a couple big dagga boys. A shot on the point of the shoulder shattered both shoulders and was retrieved under the skin on the opposite side. PH, who always thought of the 404j as an "old fashioned cartridge" had a major change of heart. | |||
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| one of us |
CRshelton, That and early 450-400s I tested got me 1800 to 1900 fps, My handloads at 2100 to 2125 fps..The 405 probably the same history I suspect..The land before time and the chronograph!  They have come a long ways.Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores General suggestions for moderate loads in a 416 Rigby
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