There is an 1875? H$H double for sale. I forgot all the inscriptions, but it is a 45 cal no.1. The stock has some dings, and the underside of the barrel has a few scratches between the sling mount and the forearm. The metal showns no rust. Its a rifle I would shoot. It is at a local small time auction and I think it will go over my budget, but any idea what it is worth?

About 4 years ago, Cape Outfitters had a very similar H&H rifle for sale in 500 Black Powder Express for $3500.

Meanwhile at the H&H booth at SCI, they wanted $12,000 for the same thing.

Thanks for the input. The auction is Saturday morning (tomorrow) at 9:00 Pacific Time. I wonder what it will bring. I'll be sure to post the sale price. It is going to be local bidders, most of whom would be more interested in the SKS next to it. At the end of the preview, I was the 5th person who asked to see it.

That is a work of art. Hope you get it.

This is a beautiful rifle with some enovations I have not seen on a H&H double rifle before! The rifle is a black powder 500/450#1 Express I assume. The brass for the 500/450 #1 Express, is quite hard to make, as it must be made from the very hard to get 475#2 NE brass. I have a Westley Richards, boxlock, ejector hammerless double, in this chambering, made in 1892, and have loads, and dirrections for makeing brass if you need them.

I would say the $3500 is about right for an H&H double of this ventage (1875), and because of the very obsolete chambering, and Back action hammer rifle. I seems to be in better than good shape, and looks quite strongly built, for a black powder rifle. If the bore is as good all the way through the barrels, as it is at muzzle, it should shoot well with the proper loads. Origenal load is,110 grs black powder, 270, to 310 gr lead bullet,for 10 tons pressure, developeing between 1875, and 1900 fps, from a 27" barrel, 2170, to 2300 fpe, at muzzle. The 500/450#1 Express was designed as a deer rifle, and is a very good caliber for that purpose, but is not suitable for any dangerous game, larger than black bear!

Good luck with the auction!

jnrifleworks,

That's a very interesting rifle.
The marks "J.P., Patent No.1104, 5230" on the action bars refers to James Purdey Patent 1104 of 1863. The number 5230 is the patent use number. This particular patent applies to the double underbolt locking mechanism that Purdey originally developed for use with his Thumbhole action but was adapted for use with the toplever or "Scott's spindle" as is the case with this gun.

Of more interest is the external locking bolts on either side of the standing breech. These are built to W.M Scott Patent No. 2052 of 1874 and must of been very new when this gun was ordered in 1875. The additional locking lugs are operated from an extension from the rear of the purdey bolt as operated by the toplever. If one includes the dolls head extension, it makes for a 5 bolt lockup mechanism. I've only ever seen one other example of this action and suspect that they must be fairly rare. There is some reference to this design and a photo of a similar gun in Crudginton & Bakers book, "The British Shotgun, Vol 2, 1871 - 1890".

Regards
RJW

I agree with MacD37 that the rifle is most probably chambered for the 500/450 No.1 Express but there are a few other possibilities. One is the .450 No.1 - 1.5" which was generally loaded with a 270gn lead bullet behind 28gn of blackpowder. This was a popular 19th century BP cartridge that is frequently encountered in single shots but may have also been chambered in a few doubles.

Possible but less likely are the .450 No.1 Carbine or the .450 No.1 Musket. These were mostly chambered in single shots rifles but could have been produced in a double. There is an enourmous number of old British .450 bore cartridges. Only a chamber cast will tell you exactly what you have.

Regards
RJW

An absolute work of art, by Gadfrey! Can yer imagine takin' that beauty on a California pig hunt . . . showin' up at some foothill ranch with a double rifle? Think about easin' yer way through the Ozark hardwoods or the Oregon timber after whitetail or black bear with it. By Jove, it makes m'handlebar quiver in anticipation. Good biddin', that man, we're behind yer 100%!

Well, the rifle went for $9000. I found the two side locking pins interesting. What a beaut. The action was smooth with a positive lockup. Glad I got the pics. Thanks for the input.