Thought I'd move this to it's own thread...

This project seems to be moving forward!

I've now got a '35 Chilean rear bridge bannered Oberndorf mauser action, .423" 1-in-14" twist 25.75" long barrel blank, PME European BR (.720") front sight and hood together for this project. Was talking with our buddy Ray about this as I was thinking a longish early 1900's British trade / express rifle.

Looking for input on stocks & barrel / rear sight combos...

I've managed to scrounge up some interesting picts:

Ray suggested a ringed H&H barrel & qtr-rib setup like this:


I was trying to find a pict of an original Jeffery .404J rifle and found this one on the Westley Richards site yesterday...snatched the jpg & description for posterity:


Had this to say about it...
A .404 Bolt Action Rifle by Jeffery:
Standard length Mauser action. Flip-up aperture sight on bolt assembly. 25” barrel with island rear sight, holding five standing leaves. Ramp foresight with removable hood. Straight grain wood with point pattern checkering, horn grip cap, and comes to a 1” brown pad.
Weight 8 lbs 7 oz Pull 14 3/8” Barrel 25”

...25" is what I was thinking for bbl length as well!

Also have always loved the Hoffman's (work of James Howe?) after seeing one a good friend has and saw this .375H&H:


Thinking a nice sidemount might be appropriate...or better yet anyone have a nice Lyman 35 they'd be willing to part with or trade? I have two or three? Paul Jaeger mounts but neither is the double-lever "Magnum" mount...Maybe if I smile real big?

Well it was worth a try! Our friend, Jim Wisner told me a couple years back that someone (name slips me???) made up a batch of Lyman 35 sights but then got into ill health and it (tooling, remaining stock) all got sold? Wondering if any of these are still around? Jim also mentioned that there is a gent making Jeffery style "single point?" sidemounts.

Thoughts...comments?

Jeff P

[ 04-10-2003, 00:17: Message edited by: Pfeifer ]

Some picts of a Lyman 35 in case someone wasn't aware...

Wow! nice guns, love that Hoffman....

I have a pattern stock for the Holland if that would help you..I would go for a 26" barrel..You ought to try mine out and see if you like it...are you coming down to Twin anytime soon.

Email me.

Pfiefer

Love the pics and love the .404. I have a Jefferys .404 that I will post a better pic of later. Mine is the basic trade gun. It is the best fitting bolt rifle I have ever shot and a favorite. Weighs 8 1/2 lbs with the military floorplate. If you hear of the fellow making the 1 point mount please let me know. I am also considering a G&H side mount. I think they are appropriate for the rifle.

Mickey1,
Our buddy Jim Wisner mentioned this to me - Mark Silver is the gents name. That is all I know at the moment. I suppose Jim or one of the other 'smiths on this forum would have his contact info.

I look forward to you posting that picture of your Jefferys .404! I have another pict of two Jefferys that someone attached (via a URL) in an email that I will go ahead and post. I just can't remember who it was! It was someone on this board that I was chatting with about the Jeffery sidemount. I wish I could remember his name as he'd also be interested in contacting Mark Silver. Hope he doesn't mind me post this pict of his two Jefferys. I really like the stock on the top rifle...

Hope that helps!

Ray,
Might be worth a trip out to visit just for that and to finally get to meet you! There is a show out here in Boise from what I understand (Eedahow Long Rifle Show I believe) you perhaps going to be out for it? ...Somehow we'll get together!

Jeff P


[ 04-10-2003, 20:24: Message edited by: Pfeifer ]

Mickey1,
Was wondering what the barrel length, muzzle diameter are on your rifle? Is it still original in that regard?

Jeff P

Pfeifer,

That was me you were corresponding with in relation to a side mount (or at least a ring assembly to work with the factory side mount on my Jeffery 375). I am still looking, and would be very interested in contact info for Mark Silver if you find out what it is.

Here is a bit better photo of the 375 and 333 Jeffery that you posted the photo of above.

Jim

Mickey1

My pattern stock is in Boise! if you want to use it...Same stock that is on the Holland in your picture..Give me a call or email if your interrested...I doubt that I will go to the Boise show...It is for a Mauser BTW.

OOps,
Not Mickey1 but Pfeifer...................

Jim/mbogo375,
Glad to reconnect with you finally! I've been scratching my head as to how to get ahold of you since JimW mentioned Mark's name to me a few weeks ago. I will ping JimW and ask him for more info. Can you describe this Jeffery mount? or do you have a better pict of the base part perhaps? JimW used the term "single-point" I believe.

Ray,
I'll give you a call in the next few days on this. Wife has me painting these days when I get home and my feet hit entry floor!

Jeff P

Pfeifer,

Here is a view of the mount base, although the photo quality may not be great due to having to crop and enlarge an old photo to get this view. I can make another photo if this does not answer your question,but I am afraid that by single point he may mean single lever.

Thanks,
Jim

Jim,
I just forwarded an invitation to Jim Wisner on this thread, so maybe we'll hear from him, otherwise, I'll call him on Friday (gadzooks! that's tomorrow).

Nice picture! Looks so much like a Germanic sidemount which I guess would make alot of sense based on the Jeffery/Schuler working relationship! Wonder if any Schuler rifles wear such a sidemount. My friend Paul has an original Schuler rifle in 11.2x72 but it has no such provision.

Is that an original peep on the rear bridge as well?

Jeff P

Jeff,

The peep is a Parker Hale, so I don't know about it's originality (it has obviously been on the rifle for a long time). The rifle was built in 1952, and the factory records indicate that it was shipped with a scope, but no mention was made as to the type of open sights. It, along with the 1908 built 333 came from Zimbabwe. It would be fascinating to know more of their history.

Jim

MARK SILVER
RR 2 BOX 382
CHASSELL,MI 49916
(906)523-4014

Past President ACGG and all round good guy. He makes better English Express rifles than the English ever did.

Pfiefer

Two views of my .404 Jeff. The barrel is .728 and 23.5 inches long. LOP is 14.125 w/steel butt plate. Horn gripcap.

mbogo

What type of bolt peep is that?





[ 04-11-2003, 08:37: Message edited by: Mickey1 ]

Mickey,

Nice 404.

I don't know the maker of the cocking piece peep on the 333, but I have seen identical peeps on several other Jeffery rifles. I assume that it was a factory available option.

Jim

Wow!
A great exchange of info and ideas going here!

Thanks Jack for that contact info on Mark Silver!

Mickey1 - That's another fine rifle - I have to ask is that the original stock? How is the rear sight setup - 1 standing + 2 leafs? on and "island" base?

mbogo375 - Did you do the importation on your two Jefferys or buy them from someone who did?

Was wondering how the barrel lugs are setup on the original Jeffery rifles? Integral, screwed-in or ...none? Comments?

I was looking at this 2-leaf NECG (Johannsen mfd) express sight base/sleeve with integral barrel lug on the bottom...This an acceptible way to go? ...or too far from traditional That brings up the next Q then...of what size would be appropriate as there are many (bore) sizes to choose from. I suspect that we need to get the barrel rough turned and figure weight and balance and then order...unless there was one to pattern from


[ 04-11-2003, 21:35: Message edited by: Pfeifer ]

Jeff,

Yes, I did the import on the two Jeffery rifles. It was a hassle with BATF paperwork (not too bad) and Zimbabwe red tape (much worse), but I am very happy with the results.

There are no barrel lugs on either Jeffery, but as you can see the 375 has two cross bolts.

Jim

[ 04-12-2003, 00:33: Message edited by: mbogo375 ]

Pfiefer

As far as I know this is the original stock. There are no recoil lugs other than those standard for a Mauser. Good stock fitting is the key. Islsnd rear sight with one standing two down 1-2&300 yards.

Well I made it out to the local Boise gun show today and met JBelk in person for the first time. Also met Gene Myers the stockmaker who mentioned that he has a Hoenig stock machine

mbogo375,
Let me know if Mark Silver can help you out with your Jeffery sidemount. Wishing you the best there!

Jeff P

A dumb question if you don't mind, what is the advantage of the barrel lug on the base? Thanks. -Fred

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pfeifer:
Wow!
A great exchange of info and ideas going here!

Thanks Jack for that contact info on Mark Silver!

Mickey1 - That's another fine rifle - I have to ask is that the original stock? How is the rear sight setup - 1 standing + 2 leafs? on and "island" base?

mbogo375 - Did you do the importation on your two Jefferys or buy them from someone who did?

Was wondering how the barrel lugs are setup on the original Jeffery rifles? Integral, screwed-in or ...none? Comments?

I was looking at this 2-leaf NECG (Johannsen mfd) express sight base/sleeve with integral barrel lug on the bottom...This an acceptible way to go? ...or too far from traditional That brings up the next Q then...of what size would be appropriate as there are many (bore) sizes to choose from. I suspect that we need to get the barrel rough turned and figure weight and balance and then order...unless there was one to pattern from

---

Fred,

If you are going to mount open express sights on an island on the barrel, using this base kills two birds with one stone. You have the base with dovetail for your island sights and the extra lug which is a necessity on heavy rifles in one unit.

Great barrel band sight/lug combo for a 458 and up, but you don't need a barrel recoil lug on a 416 or 404...Cross bolts and glass work fine, have for years without the glass...barrel lugs are absolutely necessary on the 45's up but if you can get away without them as is the case with the 375, 416 Rem. and Rigby, then it is a good idea from an accuracy standpoint as the extra lug seldom does much for accuracy, albiet fine tuned accuracy isn't a primary need in a big bore rifle so whatever blows your skirt up.

Ray,
Thanks for your input wrt the sight base / bbl lug unit. I've heard different folks draw the line at different points wrt "when" to use a bbl lug. I'm no expert here which is why it makes sense for me to draw on what others have done before me - as an observer. Most of the .404J's that I'm seeing don't have such a lug...in fact I haven't seen one that does so far! When I posted this for some reason I was thinking that the .416's was where the line was...not so inclined to incorporate a bbl lug at this point due to what I'm finding...Simplifies the barreling & bedding operations as well.

I do remember seeing a picture of an original John Rigby rifle in .416 Rigby in Tom Turpin's marvelous Custom Guns book that wears such a banded express sight base. However, I have no idea on whether it has a lug on it underneath. Logically leads me to believe that since the .404J is in the same recoil league, that it could use one as well???

Regards,
Jeff P

Howdie!
Latest thoughts have been on whether to have the '35 Chilean decrested and ground? While at the Boise show last weekend I had the privilege to examine two actions that Tom Burgess had profile ground. Very NICE work! One a VZ-24, the other a commercial "System Modele A" mauser action that had the front ring sides reduced? to leave the top of the ring with the "suggestion" of a square bridge. I've never seen this done before. Did I miss something with this operation?...systeme98 comments?

This '35 Chilean has a "Mauser" mini-sized banner on the rear bridge...so would this hopefully be left untouched? I realize the benefits of aligning the top surfaces by grinding in preparation for mounting a scope, but I'm leaning towards an open sighted rifle. Thoughts & suggestions?

Jeff P

[ 04-16-2003, 20:55: Message edited by: Pfeifer ]

Pfiefer---

Good meeting you last weekend.

The action we saw with the "contour" on the front ring was a 1909 Peruvian like the one I had in my back pocket. They're large ring/small thread. That means you can grind the sides of the front ring down to the side rail dimension without losing the strength of the front ring........and KEEP the neat inscription on the left rail.

WAFFENFABRIK MAUSER-ODBERNDORF A/N

MODELO 1909

Jack,
You sure have a *special* way of pouring salt in a wound

...Remember, that was a good friend of mine that "allowed" you to buy it from him You obviously have developed a very well trained Oberndorf sniffer to have sniffed that one out in the 15 or so minutes we left you alone ...got to be a world record!

All kidding aside...point understood - a more "meaty" front ring when it has a small barrel shank. I remember there being a VZ-24 and another with "System Modele A" on the right side ( -> 1909 Peruvian???) I thought someone said it to be a commercial Mauser, but what do I know. Anyway, I need to get more books and alot more educated on Mausers for sure. Jon Speed, Kuhnhausen and Olsen are at the top O' the list. Thanks for your help in educating us all!

Keep us all posted on what becomes of that Peruvian action...I'd like to see how you mill/grind it. Do you have plans for it already?

Regards!
Jeff P

[ 04-19-2003, 03:19: Message edited by: Pfeifer ]

Of all the sight set ups I have seen that small unobtrusive quarter rib with that ringed barrel on the 375 Holland and Hollands is sexier than playboys best, but I'm near 70 years old, so don't take that to heart...

When compared to the American version of a quarter rib that weighs 2 lbs., 14 "'s long and looks like the deck of the USS Washington...I'm sure a good pilot could land a plane on many of the custom gun guilds quarter ribs....

Pfiefer
The best feeling big bore bolt rifles I have handled have been British rifles made between the Wars. Most other big bores feel "clubby" at best. Try for the British feel and that 404 will be a great rifle.[Even if it is bolt rifle trash ]. The 404,ie, a 400 gr at @2150 is a great DGR calibre. With 300 gr. .025jkt Hawks at @2300fps it works great on deer and pigs, giving you lots of practice in the field on real animals. [This is based on results from my 450/400 double rifle. ]