Dave,
I've been playing with an M70 in .416 Rem. for the last year and a half. I got it from one of my clients and it had already been bedded, stock lengthened to fit me (imagine that!), extra barrel lug added and one of those goofy bird cages added to the muzzle. So I can't comment on them from the factory.
It feeds everything, handles well and is pretty accurate. It doesn't seem to hate any bullets but won't shoot brag'n size groups (under 1") consistantly either.
I don't know if it's the recoil pad, ugly brake, stock design or all three... but the recoil is as polite as ANY big rifle I've ever shot.
So far the thing has finished off a ton of wounded pigs, killed a few ground squirrels, couple coyotes and one elephant. I'm happy with it.

Take care,
Kyler

I would like your opinions, especially those based on actual field use of the guns in question.

I am looking to purchase a .416 of some flavor, and have the choice between a new Model 70 .416 Remington or a new CZ550 .416 Rigby. The cost of the two guns is within $100.00 of each other, so price to purchase is not an issue. I am looking to stay with a 400-grain bullet at around 2,375 to 2,400 fps, so the additional capacity of the Rigby case is sort of a non-issue.

L&B: I've owned both and currently have a Ruger in 416 Rigby. I think the Model 70 is the way to go for several reasons. I love the romance and accuracy of my 416 Rigby, but the 416 Remington in a 70 is a much trimmer faster handling rifle with near-identical performance, especially given the MVs you are seeking. From what I've seen of CZs and personally experienced with 70s the latter need much less work to "get up to speed" than the CZs. Also the CZ come with a 25" barrel ( I think) that is way too long in my view.

Yes, we've all heard horror stories about how Model 70s area accused from everything from crooked barrels and actions to I think being registered democrats. While I do not doubt the voracity of some of these stories, that is why god put guys like Mark Penrod on this earth. Send your 70 to him and you'll be "farting through silk" with a better more well-balanced rifle than the CZ. I'm sure the CZ folks will chime in, but there are my views. Of course you'll let us know what you decide upon! jorge

I would probably choose a model 70 tuned up by a custom gunsmith instead of a CZ because the CZ is rather bulky. The advantage of the CZ is that the Rigby achieves 2400 fps with LOW pressure.

Also, if I did not intend to have the model 70 tuned up by a top gunsmith, then I would stick with the cz550 which is more reliable out of the box.

I seems quite popular to knock CZ's, but I have 3 and love 'em. One .416 LUX, 4 in the magazine and one in the barrel, a .375 LUX, 6 in the magazine and one in the barrel, and a 7X57, American. They are as accurate as any of the other hundred plus rifles I own and they have never needed any "adjustment" to get them to feed or function properly. Yes, I did adjust their triggers, but that was easy and I do that to every rifle I acquire. I really like the LUX stocks because they work great with either the scopes or iron sights. I don't mind the 25" barrels at all. As a matter of fact the older I get the more I like them. I have drawn a conclusion that my brain believes noise is pain and the further I can get from the noise then my almost deaf ears tells my brain the rifle isn't recoiling so bad! I love my Model 70's but the CZ's weight and stock seem to tame the recoil of these cartridges and carrying them hasn't proved to be a problem.

The high pressure reputation the 416 is saddled with is really not fair. While it is true that original loading tended to be hot, Remington solved that problem and if you handload, pressure is not an issue. I don't think my post in any way "knocked" CZs, rather it was an objective critique of the rifle.

But since it's going to be taken negatively, here goes: Their stocks split with uncanny regularity, and that hideous bolt on the grip is "rube-goldberg-ish" to say the least, their safeties are "backwards" and most of all if you intend to HUNT with it, a 25" barrel is in my view too long. Model 70s have taken a distinct turn for the worse since their move to the Carolinas, but the crux of the matter still centers around the advantages of a trimmer, easier handling rifle that the 416 Remington round offers over the Rigby. jorge

I like and have had good luck with both CZs and Model 70s, so it is a difficult choice. That is why I am asking for input/opinions.I have owned a couple of CZs, and have not had any trouble with them. I have also owned five post 64 Model 70's over the years that were good rifles. I currently own a CZ 527 FS in .223 and a Model 70 in .375 H&H.

I have never heard of a CZ stock in DGR calibres that didn,t split with the hogsback but really are inexpensive enough to justify getting a custom stock made,also the actions really do need a fair bit of stoning to get them to feed smoothly.A major plus is the added mag capacity.The Winchester needs a set of quality express sights to replace the factory setup as these are really it's only let down.My choice would be the Win.IMHO.

I've had a CZ, and now have a Winchester 70 416Rem and a Ruger 416 Rigby. If I left for Africa tommorrow I would take the Winchester. It's smooth, feeds well and VERY accurate. The Ruger is new and won't feed factory ammo! The Winchester has the best Factory Safety and trigger (for a hunting rifle) ever made -I'm sure many will vociferously disagree but more will agree. The CZ has an overcomplicated trigger in a DGR and a backwards safety. The only reason I would go with the CZ is if that is what your other hunting rifles are and want to use a DGR with the same safety and trigger. With the Winchester there are others that use the same safety (Kimber, Berretta, Dakota etc.).
Another consideration is that the Rigby brass and ammo are roughly twice the cost of the Remington. Not much in comparison with a safari, but $125 for 20 rounds of factory Federal ammo makes it tough for a non-reloader to practice much with a Rigby..............DJ

I love my .416 Mod 70 and I am a Remington snob. My .416 is quite acccurate, which I never really cared about, but glad it was on my second buffalo which I head shot at 45 yards.

I hate long barrels on rifles that don't need them (in other words, they are good on a .300 Mag but not necessary on a .416). I wish the Mod 70 had a 22 inch barrel.

BTW, the wood on my stock is exceptional.

I'm confused. Backward safety on CZ's? It works the same all my Remington Model 700's from Vietnam to present. My commercial Mauser safeties work the same. Rearward is safe, forward is fire. I've looked at several dozen CZ's and they are all the same. This isn't backward to me.

I guess I'm the luckiest son of a gun on the block because of all the large bore rifles I have owned I have never had a stock split. I glass bed ALL rifles for accuracy sake, but then again, I guess I'm just lucky, but then again, I've kept it at .416 and .458 level.

I don't want to get a pi$$in match going but build one bridge and no one calls you a bridge builder. I had a buddy get one of Ruger's first .458's. 3 shots and the stock split. He sent it back. The next one he got back, 2 shots, split stock. He got his money back and got a Model 70 and wouldn't own a Ruger if you gave him one with a $10,000 check attached. Are Rugers bad rifles? Heck no, they're great rifles, just don't ask my buddy. I just wonder if the "problems" with the CZ's is early problems or one or two bad experiences that just keep getting repeated? I just hope they don't stop importing the "hog back" stock rifles in 9.3X62 before I acquire one.

I chose the M70 for my .416. The stock was designed by David Miller and it handles recoil well. With a 2 1/2 X Alaskan it weighs 9#'s 6 oz. And it is definitely not a registered Democrat, it shoots straight. I hope to take it for cape buffalo in two years.

I don't own a m70 (although I need to at some point ) but I have a few cz's and I like them....accurate and dependable.

Hacksawtom,



I am as confused as you with regards the "backwards" safety??? I know some of the older model CZ/Brno's had a safety that you pulled towards you to put on "fire",

but all the recent CZ's I have seen have been fitted with conventional 2 or 3 position safety's. Now those I saw were all none magnum rifles, so perhaps CZ are still using their old action for the current big bores?



Also I noticed while reading the manual that came with my 9.3x62mm that it states that the set trigger componets can be removed to leave a "normal" trigger if thats an issue for anybody. Personnally I like the CZ trigger, set or otherwise; its nice to get a fully adjustable trigger on a rifle in this price range.



Regards,



Pete

Nearly forgot, its also nice to get a rifle with a 3 year warrenty too...thats something I have not seen on any other rifle on sale in the UK......

I own a custom Model 70 in .416 Remington, and it's one of my all-time favorite rifles. Very handy, quick to get into action, extremely accurate, and -- for what you're getting -- pleasant to shoot. My rifle has a 24" barrel, and I don't see anything wrong with going 22".

For a factory rifle in .416, I would indeed go with the .416 Rem./Model 70 option. The Miller-designed stock alone is worth the price of admission, and I like the Model 70 rifle and action better than the CZ.

When you get your rifle, send it to Mark Penrod. Have him rebed it, adjust the trigger, time the safety, install an aftermarket extractor from Jim Wisner, fine-tune the feeding, make sure the open sights are on to stay, etc. It'll cost you a bit more to do this, but you'll get back a rifle that'll go the distance in any environment......

AD

having owned, handles, shot and or loaded for the mod 70, cz in 416, and ruger in 416... the ruger is the BEST of them... if the stock fits you..



the CZ is the far and away best bang for the buck



the mod70 is the american classic...



the new mod 70 stocks are FANTASTIC feeling



jeffe

I like a CZ that has been extensively worked over..A new M-70 also needs a lot of work if you intend to hunt dangerous game...My CZ 404 is a custom rifle..My 416 is a custom 98 Mauser by Searcy and I love it...I have several M-70s and they are excellent guns.

The 416 Rigby requires the big bulky action so I avoid it, but it certainly is a time proven caliber. If I want that big action then I want a 500 or 505...but that is only my personal opinnion, and is no flame on the great old 416 Rigby...

The stuff about the 416 having pressure problems is pure BS, and is caused by over loads and poor loading practices and overworked imaginations....I have been shooting it for some 30 or so years and never a problem and if it were so then the .270, .280, 7 mag and a lot of other rounds that operate on the same pressure level would be suffering the same malady...Someone prints crap and it gets accepted on ocassion, thus the case with the 416 Rem...

As to your choice, either will do the job in spades, so pick the one YOU like....

Ray,

I think you have not had a pressure problem with the 416 Remington because you use competently assembled handloads.

However, Remington put a few batches of .416 Rem factory ammo that were too hot and caused sticky extraction. That is not a fault of the cartridge, but it was a misstep at Remington. They have now fixed the load and hopefully that will not happen again.

I have a roomfull of CZ's and haven't split a stock yet. The big boomers are either glass bedded or cross bolted or both. The saftey on the ZKK series works backward but not the 550. I love the hogback stock. It fits me to a tee and I shoot it well off hand.
A gunmaker friend looked at the first 375 I got and it was his opinion that the steel recoil plate in the stock was adequate. He cross bolted it anyway because I wanted it. I'm told that the steel plate is now plastic. I don't know.
I have a Win 70 Classic Safari in 375 that has been to Africa with an old Africa veteran(17 hunts). He bought the gun,mounted a Pachmeyer lo-swing scope mount and went one last time . Killed his buff too. The gun is nice and trim and is acceptably accurate. I replaced the nice wood stock with a synthetic and then decided to take a 9,3 instead.
Ray is right. Pick the one that feels good to you.

500grs.,

Remington has not only turned out some pretty hot batches of .416 Rem. ammo, but also .375 H&H. I have a lot of Remington 'Safari Grade' .375 H&H ammo loaded with 300 gr. Swift A-Frames that gives a sticky bolt lift in my rifle, and that particular gun has NEVER provided a stiff bolt lift with any other ammunition, either factory or handloaded.

AD

I had heard the recoil plate in the more recent guns was plastic but the older ones were steel. When my gunmaker looked at it he said it was almost like he made them and he liked the system. Mine is also crossbolted and steel bedded. I like the hogback stock too. It fits me just fine and comes up right on target.