I finally gave in and ordered a Rem Model 700 LSS in 375 RUM pretty much out of curiosity, and to see how flexible it really is.

So, i would appreciate any advice/help you have for max loads, including the custom 350 grainers ( the Rem has a 1 in 10 inch twist). Of prime importance, however, would be loads for the 235 gr speer reduced to 2600 fps for a light loads for medium game. I have the Nosler 5th ED data but there is really not much out there yet on this one.

Thanks.

CK your PM

There is some load data on the nosler web site : www.nosler.com .

Oddly, enough, I was looking for that sort of data just today. Here it is right from the Hodgdon web site (reformatted for better plain text appearance):

375 REMINGTON ULTRA MAG CASE: REMINGTON

BBL: 24" PR: REMINGTON 9 1/2M
TWIST: 1:12" TRIM: 2.840"


210 GR. BAR XFB (Starting Loads) DIA. .375 COL: 3.600"
H4350 96.0 3078 52,100 PSI
H414 98.0 3177 55,600 PSI
VARGET 85.0 3110 54,700 PSI

210 GR. BAR XFB (Maximum Loads) DIA. .375 COL: 3.600"
H4350 102.0 3293 63,300 PSI
H414 104.0 3321 63,200 PSI
VARGET 91.0 3271 63,100 PSI
=================================================================
225 GR. HDY SP (Starting Loads) DIA. .375 COL: 3.560"
H4831 105.0 3062 56,200 PSI
H4350 95.0 3027 52,200 PSI
H414 96.0 3109 55,600 PSI

225 GR. HDY SP (Maximum Loads) DIA. .375 COL: 3.560"
H4831 108.0C 3137 60,600 PSI
H4350 101.0 3214 62,800 PSI
H414 101.0 3236 63,400 PSI
=================================================================
235 GR. SPR SP (Starting Loads) DIA. .375 COL: 3.550"
H4831 102.0 2957 53,800 PSI
H4350 94.0 3000 54,600 PSI
H414 95.0 3027 54,900 PSI

235 GR. SPR SP (Maximum Loads) DIA. .375 COL: 3.550"
H4831 108.0C 3111 62,800 PSI
H4350 100.0 3163 63,500 PSI
H414 100.5 3184 62,700 PSI
=================================================================
250 GR. BAR XFB (Starting Loads) DIA. .375 COL: 3.600"
H4831 98.0 2850 55,100 PSI
H4350 89.0 2842 52,800 PSI
H414 88.0 2886 57,600 PSI

250 GR. BAR XFB (Maximum Loads) DIA. .375 COL: 3.600"
H4831 103.0 3090 62,700 PSI
H4350 94.5 3010 62,700 PSI
H414 93.5 3006 62,700 PSI
=================================================================
260 GR. NOS PART (Starting Loads) DIA. .375 COL: 3.570"
H4831 95.0 2767 54,100 PSI
H4350 88.0 2819 56,300 PSI
H414 87.0 2850 59,100 PSI

260 GR. NOS PART (Maximum Loads) DIA. .375 COL: 3.570"
H4831 101.0 2923 62,900 PSI
H4350 92.5 2935 62,900 PSI
H414 91.5 2933 62,900 PSI
=================================================================
270 GR. HDY SP (Starting Loads) DIA. .375 COL: 3.550"
H4831 99.0 2779 54,200 PSI
H4350 90.0 2767 52,400 PSI
H414 89.0 2789 54,400 PSI

270 GR. HDY SP (Maximum Loads) DIA. .375 COL: 3.550"
H4831 104.0C 2922 62,900 PSI
H4350 95.0 2932 62,600 PSI
H414 93.0 2924 63,000 PSI
=================================================================
285 GR. SPR GSSP (Starting Loads) DIA. .375 COL: 3.570"
H4831 96.0 2706 55,500 PSI
H4350 88.0 2724 57,500 PSI
H414 86.0 2720 57,800 PSI

285 GR. SPR GSSP (Maximum Loads) DIA. .375 COL: 3.570"
H4831 101.0 2830 62,900 PSI
H4350 92.5 2836 62,600 PSI
H414 91.0 2838 63,700 PSI
=================================================================
300 GR. SFT SP (Starting Loads) DIA. .375 COL: 3.550"
H1000 103.0 2628 54,000 PSI
H4831 92.0 2593 54,600 PSI
H4350 85.0 2598 54,400 PSI

300 GR. SFT SP (Maximum Loads) DIA. .375 COL: 3.550"
H1000 105.0C 2678 57,600 PSI
H4831 97.0 2719 62,500 PSI
H4350 90.0 2733 62,700 PSI

C = Compressed Charge

Look at my old post in reloading on woodleigh 350gr. or do a search on loads on this site for 375rum. 350 at 2525 took care of a mulie this year.

Thanks for the replies and so much data!

What is most interesting is that the 375 RUM appears to be the internal ballistic twin of the 270 Win...yup, the 270.

The 375 shoots bullets of the same SD to the same velocities as the 270, using the same powders. Expansion ratios in bbls of equal length are indetical.

With just a slightly more recoil, maybe??

You know, I just put my first 50 rounds of handloads through this 700 LSS, and the recoil is NOT that bad...very surprising, given the reputation of the 378 Weatherby, which the 375 RUM somehow comes close to duplicating.

The key at the bench is to use a high rest, so you sit up straight, and just wear an extra pad...I use a neoprene pad of my own design that cost $14 to make.

300 gr Sierra Prohunters can easily be pushed over 2900 fps with IMR 7828 and R22, but i'm looking for a modest 2750 fps and 5000 fpe which can be had with many powders in the 4350 to R25 burn rate range.

Most fun is 58 grs of AA 5744 behind a 225 gr Hronady psp at 2600 fps...a 35 Whelen duplication load that is sub MOA and a comparative powder puff. Dang thing is a legitimate DEER rifle...

In my 700lss it loves 97grs of RL19 F215 over a 300gr partition @ 2810fps and 101grs of RL19 F215 over a 270gr X bullet@3045fps each load has taken a moose.Both shoot 1"@100yds is there a better all around caliber?

Griz -

You are right, this is the REAL sleeper in the forest of beltless newcomers...not just Remington's but Lazzeroni's as well.

The 1 in 10 inch twist will stabilize bullets OVER 350 grs at 2600 fps, the right speed for a tough soft nose with high SD to take down anything. Hornady 225 SPs precisely duplicate the 35 Whelen at 2600 fps in front of 58 grs of XMP 5744 with astounding accuracy. 375 H&H duplication loads are easy to fabricate and don't need more powder than the H&H.

More than 6 different bullets deliver the trajectory of a 130 gr 270 Win AND 3500 FPE at 300 yards.

There is NOTHING a handloaded 375 RUM can't do very, very well.

I'm with grizz!
I absolutly love my 375 RUM!

Shoots plenty flat for longer pokes, hits like a ton of bricks, is very accurate, and recoil is mild compared to the .416's
I honestly think it may be the best all round tool for the experienced shooter.

If you guys want to make your 375 Ultra really come to life try seating a 300 grain Barnes X or a 300 gr. Nosler over 106 grains of RL-25 ( work up carefully!! ).

Screw down your hats cause this load gives lots of muzzel rise!

I LOVE IT!
Jamie

X-man:

I agree that R-25 is very good in the 375 RUM, but my best 300 gr loads are with the lowly and inexpensive IMR 7828. The max load of 100 grs in the Nosler manual delivers 2965 fps with the Sierra vs the book velocity of 2859 for the Noslers. Accuracy is a moot point...5 powders so far shoot under 1 MOA.

Sabot

106 gr. of RL-25 is giving me 3050fps with the 300 Nosler!

Not required... but I found it interesting!

I haven't had this much fun with a gun in a long time.

Jamie

The only thing I don't like about the ultra is the long tube,I'm a short guy and like short rifles but you can't argue with the performance!I might load up some 235gr X bullets for long range caribou,should get 3200-3300fps.Shoots as flat as a 7mag and hits like a 458 not many can say that!!I may try RL 25 with a 300gr and see what velosity I can get.I didn't think 2950-3000fps was possible but I'll give it a go.
thanks

The 375 RUM has the same expansion ratio per inch of bbl as the 270 Win and uses the same powders to get the same velocities (2800 to 3400 fps). A 24 or even a 22 inch bbl is fine and will cost you only 50 to 100 fps with the 300 grainers. For high velocity with Speer 235 and Hornady 225 grainers, use IMR 4350 just like you would with 100 to 120 grainers in a 270. Recoil goes way down and accuracy/velocity are scary

Don't hunt with these inside of 200 yards if you don't want to look around for animal parts.

[ 11-29-2003, 03:21: Message edited by: Sabot ]

You guys are giving me a WOODY talking about a Remington 700 in .375 RUM with 3000fps/1"@100yds...!!!

That's trash talk on this Forum where the Model 70/CRF boys seem to rule the roost.


You all KNOW I've been trying to finalize my .375 thoughts into a rifle I can live with, probably a Remington 700 (gasp!) that has a 'Tactical' look and feel to it.
NOW you've got me thinking about giving up on the H&H and just going to the RUM for the 'UBER TACTICAL' hunting rifle!
Thank you!
BOOM!

[ 11-30-2003, 09:20: Message edited by: BusMaster007 ]

Go for the 375 RUM in Rem 700 LSS...you won't be sorry. I have a 338 RUM, 416 REM and a 458 Win Mag and plan to sell ALL of them since the 375 RUM can do anything they can do.

I have a ballistics lab out in the barn and use rubber waste baskets filled with sand for a bullet trap. These traps work fine for the 458, 416 and 338, requiring only duct tape to cover holes and keep the sand in.

The 375 RUM with 300 gr sierras at 2965 fps blows them wide open, splitting them along the base. On paper, the energy levels of the 375 do not explain this, so there is something else going on with high SD bullets at that velocity.

In spite of the apparant power, this is not likely to be a good hunting load and needs to be slowed down to 2750 fps for serious work in the field. For truely dangerous game, a 350 gr .375 soft point with .035 jacket at 2650 fps (R25) should keep you safe from everything but very bad mistakes.

Why don't you blokes get serious and move to 378 Weatherby

In 375 we have at one end all the tradition etc of the 375 H&H and the big whore at the 378 level.

The 375 RUM is like a milk maid.

Mike

BusMaster007

I am very suprised at the lack of cratering with the 300 Ultra. The 300 Ultra impact looks like a lower velocity hit.

I would have expected an impact that looked like the 375 Ultra but smaller in diameter and higher and more even cratering.

Perhaps the Swift A Frame and Sirroco could be the cause.

By the way, in my testing 5/8ths mild steel just about stops all of them and just about anything with go through 1/2". However, the faster ones go through 1/2" much further out.

Mike

[ 12-03-2003, 11:56: Message edited by: Mike375 ]

A 180-gr. A-Frame in the .300 Ultra might give a better cratering result.
Remington offers the .30-06 with that bullet on top.

I stumbled across that photo and thought it was a great visual aid to the thread.
A hole like that would certainly inspire confidence in the cartridge when going against any animal.

I thought reloading would be WAY down the road (gotta get a house after the next rifle... ), but the cost of feeding the .375 RUM may dictate sooner involvement.
It's a bit more expensive and harder to find than the .375 H&H.

BusMaster007

You also need to reload the 375 RUM to get full power. If you rely on factory ammo for the 375 RUM then a bloke with a 375 H&H loaded with Reloader 15 or even Hornady High Energy ammo may have you beat.

Mike

The 375 RUM renders the 378 weatherby obsolete, period. No 378 handload beats a 375 RUM handload by even 100 fps, and it takes 15% more powder for the 378 to do that!

The RUM fits into the H&H magazine and matches the bolt face. It also downloads nicely to H&H velocities if you don't need the power but like the H&H performance in some situations. Game over...milkmaid wins hands down!



[ 12-03-2003, 23:18: Message edited by: Sabot ]

Sabot

Only problem with the 375 RUM is that 3000 f/s and 300 grainers is a wall too high to climb.

However, in all seriousness I continue to be puzzled at the apparent lack of activity or interest with the 375 RUM, at least on the forums. It just has to be the best value big banger available and also it has top endorsement from Saeed with his 375/404s.

My guess is that there would be a lot more 375 RUMs on the forums if it was available in the Model 70 or CZ 550.

Mike

Mike 375

The 378 as you probably know is a recoil pig. I am pretty sure that the weatherby stock is the cause of the intense pain every time you pull the trigger.
Though I am sure the 378 can be loaded faster than the Ultra is capable (with the right powder) the real world differences will be small.
We ordered another 375 Ultra this week and are going to see if we can exceed 3000fps (300 grainers) with this gun as well. RL-25 really brings this cartridge to life! This gun will also be stocked in a McMillan sporter. The sporter is a very straight stock and when ordered with mag fill really seems to help with recoil.
I have found the 375 Ultra to be mild of recoil (as others have said) considering the performance delivered.

In my opinion the 375 Ultra sets new performance and versatility standards for the experienced and dedicated rifle shooter.

I love it!

Jamie

The .375 RUM is the ballistic twin of - - - ?

.375/.404?
.378 Wby.?
Overloaded .375 Wby.?

Please clarify.

Jamie

I have a lot of 378 Wby time

Actually I much prefer the Wby style stocmk to a stock that has the centre of the butt much closer the axis of the bore. There does seem to be two camps in this area.

There is a fibre glass stock maker in Australia who makes and expensive stock and he always recommends the Wby style for the heavy kickers.

I also find that very straight stocks tend to have the very bottom of the butt land on my shoulder when I quickly line up th rifle.

But I do agree with you that from an overall point of the view the 375 RUM is the best big banger out there, although I personally still prefer the 378 end of town and shiny stocks.

Mike

It doesn't matter, but for the record, the RUM case was designed after the 404, so any full-length 404-based will come close to, meet or exceed RUM performance.

I always knew the 375 RUM would be great, and this is just icing on the cake! I will be getting one as soon as I can find something in a CRF action. I might end up having to build it, though - anyone besides Remington chambering this cartridge? maxman

maxman :

Winchester makes the ultramag in one of thier custom rifles. Model 70, Custom Safari Express $3043.00

Mike, why us blokes don't look at the 378? Cost is one issue. Another is the fact that the 378 wby I shoot from time to time is one of my least favourite rifles to shoot in the world. I don't know about the recoil of the 375 rum, but I find the 378 to kick more than bigger calibers. It is just a mean 110 grain plus to move a 300 grn bullet lightweight machine that does make you feel like you got kicked by a mine mule. I think the 375 h&h would do a similiar job and that gun kicks like a horsefly on it's 29th day of life.

I realize the price differences for factory loaded ammo are different for the BULLET used, but...

Remington Express PSP
.375 H&H = $24.99

Remington Premium Safari w/Swift A-Frame 300-gr.
.375 RUM = $47.99

Unless you've got deep pockets, the .375 RUM is expensive to buy.
Of course, having a 21st Century .375 that you don't shoot too often, just to HAVE it...

I have several hundred handloads through my 375 RUM and the most accurate thing I can say about recoil is that you can make it kick almost as hard as a 378 if you try hard enough, but the velocities at that level are higher than you would ever use in the field. If you handload, you can back it down to 5000 FPE with a 300 gr bullet at 2738 fps and 49 FP of free recoil in a 10 pound rifle. A 378 will give you around 66 FP.

So, you are in the realm of, say...a 12 ga OO buck in a 7 LB shotgun with the RUM and a 5.2 pound shotgun with the 378. I personal opinion is that the 49 FP recoil can be effectively buffered by a high tech recoil pad on the rifle, mated with a 1 inch pad you can wear under a shirt. With this protection, I am good for a lot of shooting over a 1 hour period as long as I use a high rest so I sit up straight. In the field, just a good butt pad like the new Remington is plenty...but don't shoot this puppy prone, PERIOD.

If you load the RUM all the way up to 5600 FPE, you will be within 5 FP recoil of the 378, and the Rem 700 is just too light for this much push. It calls for either a Brake, or a heavy laminate stock, or both.

If we get back to your experience with the 338 and concern for recoil, I share your concerns. From a practical perspective, I am coming to think that simply stuffing 375 bullets in to the 338 Win Mag is the best all around solution. This gives you the 375 Chatfield Taylor and duplicates the 9.3X64, which we can't get in this country. I am working with on on a Savage action (rebarreled 338 winnie) and love it. Kicks like a 338 and hits like a (HOT) 375 H&H. Right around 4600 FPE and easily loads down to duplicate the 35 Whelen with fine accuracy.

Back to the .375 RUM cartridge and loads in the Remington 700 LSS...

Would you guys who've bought this rifle put the recoil in the 'abrupt' or 'more like a shove' catagory?

I've heard guys describe recoil differently, but, those two terms came to mind.
I shot a 300 RUM new out of the box when at the range one day, and, it was 'abrupt', as one gunwriter put it correctly.
I've never shot a .375 H&H, but, I've watched someone do it, and it looked like it knocked the shit out of him!
My 'ex-friend', the .338 Win.Mag. proponent, said he'd never try the .375.
I bought a .338 and sold it.
It was neither abrupt nor did it kick my ass.
I just never loved it.
It 'lacked' something.

So, I reasoned that the .375 H&H was the right choice until I saw this thread.
Now, I'm all hip to the trip of getting the .375 ULTRA, but, other than the one load mentioned that says to 'screw down your hats!', how would you describe the recoil of this cartridge?

BusMaster007

I have never fired the 375 Ultra but have fired plenty either side of it, that is, the 375 H&H and the 378 Wby and the 375 Ultra is much closer to the 378 than it is to the 375 H&H.

I would say with full power loads in the light Rem 700 LSS recoil will be a real jolt. The old Made in Japan 378s were light like the Rem 700 LSS and the recoil from those is really something to deal with. You may remember that the Rem 700 APR and APG were on my agenda and one of the negatives for those rifles for me was that they did not come with a muzzle brake.

Mike

Well, if the recoil is anything like the 3-inch magnum slugs I've fired in my Beretta 1201-FPG3 12-ga. autoloading Police Shotgun, which is 'recoil operated', not gas-operated, then I might be able to tolerate a few rounds of the .375 ULTRA without too much pain!
That shotgun gives you the full brunt of whatever's going down the barrel.
Nothing in the way of recoil absorption other than your shoulder and the way you stand when shooting it.
I kind of figured it was the most brutal thing I've ever shot.
When I first fired a .338 in a Ruger M77, I'd already fired the 1201 with some hot Winchester slugs and the .338 wasn't as bad. That surprised me.
So, if the 700/.375 kicks like the 1201/12-ga., "we be in bidness"...!

Makes me wonder how much fun some of the Garrett or Buffalo Bore rounds will be in my Marlin 1895 .45-70...