Probably asked before but what sort of grouping have others found acceptable on target say at 50m when shooting a big bore freehand, that is without using sticks or a rest of any sort.

I like to beable to put them all into a 4 in circle at 50 yards with decent speed. Taking ones time should be able to do a bit better.

One has to remember we are talking about putting rounds into the killing area of some big critters target style groups are not needed.

A smallish dinner paper plate (9" diameter) should be fine, a desert paper plate (6" diameter) is even better. Don't aim at the plate, aim at the center of the plate! Don't wait so long for things to steady, breath evenly, take up the slack in your trigger and when you're on target (even if you're moving slowly through it) squeeze. At least that's the way I was taught. It's worked for me and my two sons (oldest is the squad marksman with both rifle and pistol in the 3rd Ranger battalion)



Chuck

With eyes closed or open?

Sights may make the difference.
Scope, aperture or express.
It is no good someone feeling others are calling tighter groupings of shots if one has a scope and the other has express.


Von Gruff.

IMO,offhand shooting accuracy with big bores is all about being able to control the recoil and holding a hard kicking rifle steady.I always wondered why my 100 yd offhand groups where much better with my 308 than my 458 lott with the lott shooting more accurate off the bench.If you are not that young and strong,you will probably find it difficult to hold a rifle firm enough to reduce the speed at which it is going to come back at you and at the same time steady enough so that the bead is on or near the bullseye.If you can accomplish this,then you will need to keep the butt pad on the same spot on your shoulder,for every shot,in such a way that it does not disturb the follow through process.Placing the butt pad on the correct spot on your shoulder can also make shooting much more pleasant.I remember not being able to shoot more than a couple of rounds in a single day before placing the pad further from my arm and closer to my chest.I can now shoot many without that much discomfort.[URL= ]a[/URL][URL= ]b[/URL] The correct position to place the stock butt,IMO is where you see the large bruise-the spot further from the arm.Offhand shooting was more accurate and pleasant with the stock butt in this position.IMO,the rifle stock should not be placed where you see the smaller bruise or redness.

First learn to shoot off hand no sticks. Start with a 22 lr or 17hmr and work on 1 to 1 1/2 inch groups at 25 to 50 yards. Use a good full size rifle and decent scope about 10 x and sub sonic ammo with the 22. Then move to 17 hmr or a accurate 223 bolt gun out to 100. At 100yrds conditions will become a factor. a 10 mph will move either round a 1" or so at 100. Then move up to a 308 class rifle

The 22 requires bettter follow through than a centerfire rifle, learn to shot first then worry about the recoil latter.

Learn the scope before Iron sights. Calling your shoots while useing a scope is easier. You will learn faster
Training with 10 x makes a lower power hunting scope seem much slower. Don't train to fatigue, its better to make five perfect shoots than 20 or so ok shoots. Your first shot of the day is the most important one.


Get some snap caps for your big rifle and dry fire several times a week. Gunfit and the balance of the rifle and trigger tune all make a differance.



I can shoot my 505 as well as my 22 or my 308 for the first 3 or 4 shots. Recoil won't be a problem if you work up to it haveing already learned to shoot. Trying to learn to shoot well with a heavy gun is different than trying to learn how to shoot, you can't do both at the same time.


To answer you question when I am in pratice I can shoot 1 1/2 to 2 moa out to 300 yards for the first 4 or 5 shots off hand with a good well fitted accurate scoped bolt gun.
JD

And after a session at the range, shoot a .22 or .17HMR.

This is the last thing your mind remembers and goes some way to getting rid of any mental flinches.

.

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:
And after a session at the range, shoot a .22 or .17HMR.

This is the last thing your mind remembers and goes some way to getting rid of any mental flinches.

.

Thats a real good point, thats something I did a lot of, when I was training for my plains game hunt with a 375 and 416, after 40 or so rounds of the bigbore I would take out the 22 and see if I was flenching.

JD

quote:

Originally posted by J D:

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:
And after a session at the range, shoot a .22 or .17HMR.

This is the last thing your mind remembers and goes some way to getting rid of any mental flinches.

.

Thats a real good point, thats something I did a lot of, when I was training for my plains game hunt with a 375 and 416, after 40 or so rounds of the bigbore I would take out the 22 and see if I was flenching.

JD

I got a bad flinch at one time and this cured it.

It also helps greatly with your accuracy off hand - as someone said so well above in another post.

.

I can shoot just about any rifle in any caliber into 2-3 inches at 50 yards offhand. Basically If you can keep all your shots on a paper plate at 50 yards your good to go. I also like shooting .22s as they sharpen your off hand shooting skills a lot for a low price particularly if you want to shoot well into a wind and at over 100 yards. -Rob

if you cant shoot a 22 well you wont be any better with a bigger cal , so learn on the cheap stuff first, has to do w foot placement stock fit ect, shoot at a 50 ft smallbore target you are shooting for the center ring which is smaller than 22 cal bullet, its more about not fighting the gun than anything else. proper stance puts you on target everything else is easier
and you dont need to hold a big bore tight as is what you are going to hear, it needs to be in the right spot on shoulder but if your tense you wont hit anything
i hold a 416 rem mag just like i hold a 22 target rifle standing no support or sling
no problem

was losing my wireless connct, so to continue.
i dont use a sling on my hunting guns so i practice without one,and im not sure i would be slung up tight w a big bore, but learn proper use of a sling,everything that nmakes it easier to learn will improve your shooting
i shoot clay pidgeons off the 200meter backstop
even with the 416

If I’m shooting under 100 yards off hand then I shoot instinctively the same as my long bow pick a spot then when I draw the bow or bring up the rifle up my pointer finger goes right to that spot even with a rifle my pointer finger is extended along the forearm I do the same with pistols . I don’t know if this is the right thing to do but it works for me but I shoot almost every day because I work at a range.

Thanks for the answers with most confirming what I had been thinking. Just got bored a little on the range yesterday so stood up from the bench and fired 3 shots from the 404 at a 100mm orange circle on another old target at 50m. All three shots hit in the circle probably within 3" of each other. Using a 2x extended eye relief scope and just touched off each shot as the cross hair passed into the orange circle.

Was just interested to see what others achieved with their off hand shooting of big bores.

For my 375 H&H and 416 Rem I use milk jugs at 50, 100 and 150 yards. If I can hit them at these ranges, I am ready for anything that walks. I also use the silouette range for the same purpose with smaller caliber rifles - especially before chasing antelope. Other than getting my rifle where I want it on paper, I don't worry much about shooting tiny groups all the time.

I can pretty much blast pop cans all day long at 50 yards with any rifle I have had. Its my favorite type of practice for hunting.

Thats how the boys and I practice too (buying cheap orange diet soda and shaking the cans and setting them out at 50, 100 and 200 yards). A little friendly competion doesn't hurt. We shoot at the 200 yard cans sitting or kneeling. After a little practice you shouldn't miss at 50 yards off hand and will rarely miss at 100 yards if you go every other week.

Chuck

I asked this same question last year when working up loads for a buff hunt with my 10.75 Mauser. Robgunbuilder said 3in, 2in would be better, off hand with express sights at 100yds. Even with lots of practice, I could not meet this standard, even with the 2.5X scope. 80yds, off sticks, the buff went down. Next shot off hand at about 60yds. Done.

Well you practiced and shot offhand well when it counted! Shooting offhand is fun and the more you do it the better you get. Don't get dependent on sticks though as I'll bet most of you shoot as well without them as with them. Just a crutch in my book! I spent years shooting little metal animals at 40- 100m with a .22 pistol offhand in masters class. That's HARD! Now we are shooting .308 pistols at 500m creedmore! That's harder!most will say that can't be done! Go to a match and prepare to be amazed! A .308 Pistol thumps you pretty solidly too!-Rob