Which would you choose and why? Or why not?

I chose the model 70.( got mine for 800$ NIB) The ruger to me, was too heavy and way too expensive . The forend was too blocky. I did not exopect to have a perfect rifle out of the box, (never have, never will) so I knew I would do some work to it, I just felt the Winchester was the better platform for me. If I had to pay current asking prices for the Winchester, I;m afraid I'd pay the newer high pices as I feel it is just a better starting place.

_Baxter

I have and would choose the Model 70...they are lighter and feel better balanced to me.

I find the Ruger RSM to very accurate but very barrel heavy. My M77 in 416 Rigby produced 1" groups @ 25/50/100 yards..... but too heavy.

No "bad" choices here.... good luck

The only RSM I've owned was not a 375 but a 416Rigby so cannot compare point by point as to caliber but I just don't LIKE Ruger bolt rifles. It is all purely personal and as to quality and usability they are reasonably equal. I do not like the Ruger safety,stock,barrel shape and the 1/4Rib has no character at all to me. These are all personal to me and someone else will find them beautiful no doubt. I dislike the bolt handle shape and particularly the large clearance cut out in the stock for it. The wood on mine was an outstanding piece and the finish checkering and inletting was all good, just do not like for example the flat shape right behind the upper tang or the flat on the bottom around the floorplate. Mine shot good and was reliable,all right out of the box. On the other hand I am a great lover of No1's and have been since they came out. Have literally owned over a dozen but all in the 1a configuration with the Alexander Henry forearm. I currently own a 405,9.3x74r and a 450/400 and probably be talked into another one. I have owned many other Ruger firearms thru the years and have found them to be uniformly good firearms and in fact I bought one of the new SR9's literally based on past satisfaction with Ruger. I just don't like the 77's and especially the RSM's. On the other hand I cannot think of a single feature I DON'T like on a Model 70 no matter what the caliber.The stocks are pleasing to my eye and fit me well,barrel contour is excellant and back when I was building rfles I always copied that contour. The safety is outstanding and the old prewar bigbore rear as is made today by Wisner is second to non in performance and looks to me. As you see all the points I have made are personal in nature and don't really make any difference to the performance of the rifles in question.

Another vote for the model 70. Both are great guns, but as much as I like the RSM, the M70 is just a smoother operating, better handling rifle IMO.

I have owned both. The Mod 70 is in the safe and the RSM is at Jim Dubells getting converted to a 500 Jeffery. The ruger shot great , looked great but weighed way too much for a 375 H&H.

Brad

Is Winchester/FN, etc. making a new Model 70 in 375HH?? Did not know they had started the magnum length actions with the new start up versions?? If not, either used or still new "new,old Model" 70 would be your only choice from Winchester. I have both and far prefer the RSM's in all respects, but I am accustomed to heavier rifles and the weight does not give me a problem. Especially in the 458Lott/416Rigby class cartridges. To each his own and good luck with whatever you select.

I bought the RSM, a Model 70, a Remington Custom and a Weatherby Fibermark to get ready for a 2009 Buffalo hunt...Sold all of them but the RSM...You guys are right the RSM is HEAVY but was by far the best shooter. I picked up a Dakota at Cabelas the other day, now that was sweet!

quote:

Originally posted by zimbabwe:
I do not like the Ruger safety,stock,barrel shape and the 1/4Rib has no character at all to me. I just don't like the 77's and especially the RSM's. On the other hand I cannot think of a single feature I DON'T like on a Model 70 no matter what the caliber.The stocks are pleasing to my eye and fit me well,barrel contour is excellant and balanced

My personal feelings to a tee, but again it's personal. I do LIKE THE NEW RUGER HAWKEYES and I own one but I have seven M70's from 30-06 to 458 Lott. I would love to put tang safties on all of them but that's not practical.

I prefer the Winchester. Much lighter and handier and smoother in operation.

And mine, although customized and therefore perhaps not representative, is very accurate.

I have two RSM's 375 H&H and 458 Lott and a Winchester 70 in 458 Lott.

I like the RSM's hands down yes they are heavier, but they are a whole lot more rifle for the money. Factory rib and good express sights the 375 shoots right at an inch at 100yards. I have a lightweight 375 H&H Whitworth and the recoil is noticeably more in the Whitwirth than the Ruger.

I like my rifles a little on the heavy barrel side, it seems easier for me to shoot off hand with a barrel heavy rifle.

My 2 cents.

Hey Gang:

Just a follow up. I really Like the Ruger so much so that unless I could get a great deal on a Dakota I'd be happy to have an RSM as my only Big Bore (I'd have too think about which caliber but there all good). My specific point is I don't mind a heavy bench only rifle but if I have to carry it all day long I'd rather go way light and take the punishment than drag a 11lb rifle around all day. My 416 rem mag weighs in at 8.25lb with scope and ammo which is fair. My 9.3 Rum wildcat runs under 8lbs. My only thoughts are the Mod 70 is a little lighter but still too heavy in my opinion. I missed that deal on the 375 H&H Dakota African for $4200 If you can shoot the rifles you are interested in and then buy the one you like. You can't go wrong with either one.

Brad

The new Ruger Safaris are not barrel heavy like the older guns were...

I think the Ruger is the best buy and the best gun, it has all the same features plus better wood, a barrel band swivel, barrel band front sight and a intregal quarter rib..The quarter rib on a custom rifle costs you and extra grand to three grand depending on who is building the rifle...that alone makes the Ruger a heck of a buy...

Not to say that I don't like the M-70s..I do like M-70s, especially the pre 64 models.

I have one of the last LH Safari Classics in .375 made before Win nosedived. It has a forty dollar trigger job that breaks like a glass rod and is otherwise box stock. After one dead buffalo and around 1200 rounds, I can attest to consistent MOA and sub-MOA accuracy and faultless operation. The balance is great and the ergonomics are excellent. Can't speak for the Ruger.

I have the Ruger Express (like the Safari) in .30-06 and it is the best rifle I have in my battery! But, I have also the Win70 Safari in .375H&H and I would take this one again, because it is lighter than the Ruger (which I would prefer fpor the .416 for example) and it shoots groups of 20mm (4/5 inch) with 5 rounds. The only 2 things I had to do is a trigger job and glass bedding of the action - perfect tool in the hands!

Klaus

Find a used Whitworth. It will be cheaper than an M70, with better quality than the later ones, and lighter than the Ruger. The Ruger is great in a Rigby or Lott, too heavy in .375.

I have picked up a Winchester Model 70 of recent manufacture, that with a 3x9 Zeiss Conquest on it,it weighed an honest 11 pounds. It was a .375 H&H with a factory barrel. Nice to look at, but way too heavy. I suspect a Ruger RSM with the same scope would have been a trifle heavier, still too heavy.

9.5 pounds loaded is my limit.

Im with Ray, the newer RSM's are not as barrel heavy as the older ones. Yes they are still heaveier than the model 70 but I personally like the weight. I think they are the best buy for a custom looking gun and they shoot very good. My RSM 375 shoots better than my M70 375. The sights are better on the RSM, espceially the rear. I thing the rear flip up sight on the M70 is cheesy and cheap.

I do like the bolt handle on the M70 better than the RSM. It is longer and it seems to be easier to grab and cycle faster than the RSM. That being said in my particular two rifles the bolt and raceway are very loose and sloppy on the M70 as compared to the RSM. The M70 will almost bind when you fully pull it back and try to slam it home. This sloppiness could be the culprit of the lacking accuracy of the M70 as compared to the RSM.

I also do not like the magazine catch on the M70. It is not as secure as the RSM. I have never had the mag well come open on my RSM in either 375 or 458 Lott, however; I had to modify both of the catches on my M70 375 and 450 Ackley as they both have come open under recoil.

My oppinion RSM wins

I LOVE my RSMs in 416 Rigby and 458 Lott but for me the 375 H&H vote goes to the M70. The RSM 375 is one soft shooting accurate rifle to be sure, but FOR ME a little too porky for the 375. The extra heft of the RSMs is a bonus in the bigger bores...I don't like shooting light weight 416s or Lotts! In the 375 the recoil is quite ageeable in my M70 Pre 64 and I like the trimmer, lighter rifle. Mind you I view and use my 375 more of a mid weight caliber for my NA game. For a more recoil sensitive person (and no jab intended as I know some folks who can shoot circles around me that simply don't like heavy recoiling rifles!) the RSM in 375 would be the ticket in this caliber. I like how the M70 375 feels and carries like a "regular" rifle...it feels like an -06 or 300 win. The RSM feels and carries like a big bore.

Handle the rifles you are considering and go shooting. You really can't make a bad choice between the RSM/CZ 550/M70. Set up your rifle and have fun!

This past weekend I blasted some ground squirrels with my Lott and took a coyote with my 25-06. All fun and thats whats its about!

Get shooting!

John

What function does the quarter rib have other then esthetics?

Like to me it don't matter... it's certainly not a reason to base a rifle choice on.

Ray Atkinson the Ruger Safari magnum my friend has (.416 Rigby) has the most God-awful weight forward barrel of anything I have ever handled. I do not like the balance on that gun, but that huge pipe does help soften recoil.

If they have lightened the barrel a bit that would be good.

They have lightened the barrel. As for the quarter rib, well asthetics is its function. It adds a custom look to the rifle. To some people such as yourself it does not matter, to others it does, and is a large consideration to the purchase of a rifle. To each their own.....

quote:

Originally posted by silwane:
They have lightened the barrel. As for the quarter rib, well asthetics is its function. It adds a custom look to the rifle. To some people such as yourself it does not matter, to others it does, and is a large consideration to the purchase of a rifle. To each their own.....

So, it adds weight to an already heavy rifle...

quote:

Originally posted by Moose-Hunter:

quote:

Originally posted by silwane:
They have lightened the barrel. As for the quarter rib, well asthetics is its function. It adds a custom look to the rifle. To some people such as yourself it does not matter, to others it does, and is a large consideration to the purchase of a rifle. To each their own.....

So, it adds weight to an already heavy rifle...

Now, now, Moose-Hunter....

RSM for me. The barrel wt. helps to stabalize the rifle for offhand shooting. Most of us could stand to loose a few pounds from around our middle that would make carrying a heavier rifle an easier chore. But the real basis for my RSM preferance is the two piece bolt of the mod.70. I have seen what happens when they come apart and it ain't fixable in the country. I am an avid Ruger and Winchester collector. Dr C

quote:

Originally posted by silwane:
They have lightened the barrel. As for the quarter rib, well asthetics is its function. It adds a custom look to the rifle. To some people such as yourself it does not matter, to others it does, and is a large consideration to the purchase of a rifle. To each their own.....

I can't afford a fancy fore-end tip, engraving or quarter ribs. I'm a poor working stiff.

If I end up in Africa some day I will be carrying about the homliest .458 Lott CZ-550 you've ever seen.

It will not have any of that cosmetic stuff.

But I will have hunted with it and I will be proficient with it, I assure you that.

Later, Demo.

Demo: Life is too short to hunt W/ an ugly gun. Dr.C

Just wondering...how many Model 70 .375 bolts has anyone seen fail? I'll have a skilled smith inspect mine before Tanzania next year, but have yet to meet anyone who has had this happen to them.

I like the Model 70 .375 and the RSM but why are you not looking at the new Kimber?
Bill

jetdrvr: A friend of mine and a poster here had it happen to a .416 Remington in a mod 70. I was in disbelief until I saw it myself. I thought that in a Winchester that it could never happen. The rifle was sent to a notible smith, the bolt realigned and welded. It is a real problem. Dr.C

Thanks. I'll have mine checked. I shoot it a lot, both slow and rapid fire, had the bolt inspected before my last trip, have used in minus 20 in Canada and plus 100 in the Selous and here in Florida. No problems so far. I've heard this mentioned frequently but until now had never heard of someone that it actually happened to. Thanks.

What's the problem with the M70 bolt? I've never heard of this.

I have no problems with a heavy 416 or larger, most doubles weigh over 10 lbs. It certainly calms down the rearing up and gets you back on target in a hurry..I have no use for light weight big bores, probably because I shoot mine as opposed to stacking them in the gun cabinet and showing them to friends! The big bores kick like a SOB and I'll take the weight, and I don't flinch like many do!

quote:

Originally posted by MCM300:
What's the problem with the M70 bolt? I've never heard of this.

The story goes that the Model 70 bolt, (speaking of the later Safari Classic; don't know about the pre-64) is a two piece bolt that sometimes separates the pieces in the field (or on the range, for that matter), thereby leaving one-gun hunters without a rifle, or can get you killed facing a charge. The two pieces are brazed together and can separate. I've heard this story for years, but until doc posted above, I've never heard of anyone it actually happened to.

Before my last hunt, I had a very good smith check the integrity of the brazed joint. No problem. Prior to that hunt, I ran about 900 max 300 grain loads through the rifle, getting ready. Since the hunt, I've put around 300 more through it and the only problem I'm having is heavy copper fouling from Hornady round noses. The bolt now works and has always worked flawlessly. I don't need something else to worry about next year in Masailand. They have, as you well know, some big critturs up there who are prone to violence when you shoot holes in them. That's why I asked.

Does not apply to the pre '64 model 70. The new bolts are brazed together. In the incident that I was involved with the brazing gave way during a difficult case extraction. Dr.C

You can bet I'll check it out before leaving, but I still have a year to go and a lot of shooting to do. I can see where a sticky case could affect a weakened joint. Maybe I'll get mine welded before I leave. Thanks for the info.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
I have no problems with a heavy 416 or larger, most doubles weigh over 10 lbs. It certainly calms down the rearing up and gets you back on target in a hurry..I have no use for light weight big bores, probably because I shoot mine as opposed to stacking them in the gun cabinet and showing them to friends! The big bores kick like a SOB and I'll take the weight, and I don't flinch like many do!

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