The 458 Express thread got me thinking about all the comments about 2300 fps.



I'm sure that this has been covered before, but with my memory and the search engine both failing, I thought I'd ask anyway.



I thought that the original reason Jack Lott created the round was to allow him to get velocities closer to the published specs of the Win. Like over 2100 fps. Am I wrong here? If so, is there any real gain to try and get to 2300 and what is it about that figure that makes it worth attaining.



I'm doing ~2175 out of mine. Am I missing something by not trying to get to 2300 besides a detached retina..?



Just wondering.



-Steve

Steve,

The old British fromula was a .458" 500 grain bullet at 2,150 fps (5,000 ft-lbf energy).

Mike LaGrange reported in his monolog Ballistics in Perspective that in his penetration tests penetration with those solids peaked in the range of about 2,250 to 2,350 give or take, and decreased above that velocity range. I expect you are hearing the magic 2,300 fps from citations or derivation of that work.

2,175 fps is enough.

jim

Although I have no problem with a 500 gr. bullet at 2100 plus, 2300 is certainly better, as usual the big dog always sleeps on the poarch....

I can tell a definate difference in a 500 gr. bullet at 2350 FPS as I shot in my Lott over the 458 Win. at close to 2100 FPS, at least on Buffalo...The Lott at 2300 plus is the next step up from a 416 Rigby or Remington, and its a good size step up...

I hunt with the 404 and 416 only because I can handle the recoil better, as the Lott at those 2350 FPS speeds chill my feces!

Is there a difference? absolutly, Is it needed? who knows its a choice...

Ditto. In the long run it will make a difference. To say it doesn't, well, then the 505 Gibbs is no better than the Lott, etc. It just ain't so.

All right, let me ask a couple of questions here:

1. My stepfather is going to be receiving his custom 416 Taylor next week for Christmas and although won't be ready to shoot for a month or two, with that rifle and bullets ranging from 340/50-400 what velocities should he be trying to get?

2. I will hopefully finish my 458 next year and I am having it taken from win to lott so I can keep the pressure lower. Can I get 2300fps without high pressures? (22" tube)

Thanks.

Red

I'm getting 2350 fps with 400 gr. bullets with my unfinished Taylor in a 22" barrel. Highly compressed.

I got 2300 fps with 500 gr. bullets with my Lott in a 22" barrel. Highly compressed.

All I can say is this: In June I used my 450 No2 with 480 grain Woodleigh Solids on 3 elephants, and a 480 Woodleigh Soft on one, with 2 Solids as finishers, and a 500 grain Swift A Frame on another buff with excellent results.
My velocity should be somewhere around 2100 to 2150 fps.
Do not know why I would need any more.
I shoulder shot a big bull elephant and it stopped him in his tracks. My second shot broke his leg, passing through the leg bone, exiting, then passing through the trunk. I do not know how you could improve on that.
Durring the Safari I had talked to the PH about wanting to get a 577 or a 600 Nitro... After I shot the bull elephant the PH said, You do not need a 577 or a 600... that 450 No2 hits elephant like a freight train.
My videographer also said to not waste my money... the 450 No2 was plenty enough gun.

Well, if your videographer says so, I guess that's it.!

Will, My videographer is very experienced... and very brave... after all he has only a camera. His tracking skills and game spotting ability is second to none. I highly recommend Ian Lewis www.safarivideos.com

He is an excellent videographer and a fine fellow to have in camp. His presence in camp was a definate plus. His video and his friendship added tremendously to my African experience. In fact he is comming to the Dallas Safari Show, which afterward we are going on a wild pig hunt. This time he will hunt and I will video . My Ph Wayne Edwards will also hunt with us if he comes to America. A great time should be had by all.



Having my Safari Videoed was the best money I have ever spent.

I'm thinking about building a 458 Lott on a P-17 I was wondering how long of a tube to use I was thinking about a 24 inch barrel does it matter how long the barrel is on the 458 Lott? I have a 404 but I would just like to have a 458 Lott just because. I'm also going to build a 375 Taylor on vz24. I have another P-17 I'm thinking about building a 416 rigby that one should be an easy one to do.

You guys augth to see what a .600, 900gr bullet at 2300 plus FPS does to game. Makes the Lott look like a .22 long rifle!-Rob

You da man. I don't see how anyone could handle the recoil of such a monster. Makes my back hurt just thinking about it.

323,

24" barrel will work just fine, for a 458 Lott. That is what I have on my Rem 30S/458 Lott. Mine has a #5 conture, the weight is helpful!

Hog Killer

Or a .585", 800 grs FN solid at 2500 f/s....

Gentlemen



Some good article from Chris Bekker



http://www.deerstalker.com/bsbb.htm



http://www.deerstalker.com/kov.htm



http://www.deerstalker.com/terminal_ballistics.htm



Cheers

/ JOHAN

The P-17 action I was going to use for the 416 Rigby is a Eddystone the gunsmith I'm going to have build the 416 and 458 said he will not use the eddystone to build a 416 rigby but the other one is a Winchester and he will build the 458 Lott. He said just leave the eddystone a 30-06.

Paul - what happened to the chronograph?

I "dinged" one of the pins that holds the shades for the chrony I use which actually belongs to my stepfathers brother, I need to find a replacement for it. hopefully it is one of those clubs you join by just doing it the one time and never have to repeat the initiation.

Red

Guy's,

Stop all this talk about shooting your chronograph. I plan on working up new loads in the next couple of weeks. I don't want you all to jinx me...

I went back and looked at my records. My soft loads are running about 2250. My solids are at about 2175, but same point of impact. I'll try some more experimenting with the solids to see if I can get them upped a bit. If my chrono makes it through the session...

Thanks for all the input!

-Steve

Most any 458 Lott will clock 2300 to 2350 FPS with a 24" barrel and 73 to 74 grs. Of IMR-4350 without excessive pressure..All mine got that and better but with 26" barrels...

I suggest you read The 458 Lott, by G. Sitton, Rifle magazine No. 135, May-June, 1991...It is a very informative article on the .458 and all who own and shoot one should get a copy of this magazine and read it..

That is the only powder that I have been able to clock those velocities with in a 458 with a 500 gr. bullet..I shot all mine at 2300 plus a tad and they certainly kill buffalo..but with excessive recoil IMO...

My Lott sports a 22" tube, nothing to do about that now, and no I didn't make that call. But how are the 450g. northforks for Buff and other african game? a bit smaller than the 500's so a bit more velocity. I bought soem 250's for my 35 whelen AI but have not gotten around to loading them up yet let alone shooting them at a 4 legger.

Red

I have not used the 450s but I am betting they will work fine, in fact I know they will in that good designed bullet.

I do know that a 240 gr. 338 caliber Northfork soft will shoot length wise through a bison after breaking the big shoulder bone. Bill Dowtin, Dowtin Gun Works, just did that on a hunt with me.