Boutique companies

27 December 2010, 07:04

richj

Boutique companies

Page not found. I thought Empire was a General Contractor too.

quote:
Originally posted by ramrod340:
"""Actually here is his reply from another forum

http://www.africahunting.com/f...empire-rifles-3.html
"""

Well anytime you run your business as a pyramid you are asking for trouble.

Sorry but bad business practice gets even worse when you decide to start lying about it.

On the other post he states your rifle is checkered. IF that is fact and not another lie they why in the HELL has it taken another 2+ months and it still is not delivered. Sounds like Empire is still just printing

27 December 2010, 07:23

Charles_Helm

Try this link.

27 December 2010, 08:27

458Win

Any business has to know and understand their clientele -- and the more exclusive and expensive they are the more important it becomes. A company that mass produces objects can get away with poorer customer service than those who deal with successful clients.

27 December 2010, 20:33

I Bin Therbefor

The one I hope really makes it is Kilimanjaro rifles.

http://kilimanjarorifles.com/.

I like their product and their attitude. However, not having made a purchase from them I don't know how good their business practices are.

29 December 2010, 04:29

JabaliHunter

Well, I would just go and collect all the parts that I'd paid for and then go and find a real maker to put them together.

29 December 2010, 04:39

Express_Rifles

quote:
The one I hope really makes it is Kilimanjaro rifles.

If spending 8500 on a Montana actioned rifle is your thing then go for it that company has changed names before but wish them the best in their venture

29 December 2010, 05:18

jeffeosso

So Jim
Two months ago George answered your statements? Sorry, man, feel for you. But I think your are bearing a torch that won't light

29 December 2010, 05:51

jjs

quote:
Originally posted by Jim in MI:
I have been waiting 4 years for my Empire 458 Lott, and I will never again order a custom gun.

I read Boddington's book Safari Rifles and he said there isn't 1 gun company making a rifle that is Africa ready: every rifle sold will need the stock bedded and crossbolted, and maybe some action work, to have it ready for dangerous game.

I saw Empire pillar bedding and cross bolting their stocks, and I could order one in the barrel length and LOP I desired, and I could order one with an aperture sight. Gun writers raved about Empire, so I ordered one and lost $8500.

So then I took a 1953 Win 70 in 300 H&H to my local Grand Rapids gunsmith, Bachelder's, and 5 months later they delivered a 458 Lott with Sunny Hill bottom metal, NECG sights, Talley bases, and a McMillan safari stock with cast off built into it. 5 MONTHS not 5 years.

Jeff Cooper built Baby on a Brno, not a custom action, and would have saved $8500 had I followed his example and just built on a Win or CZ to start with.

Last July I sent a 1953 Win 70 Featherweight to Grizzly Custom to make a Scout rifle and you can see the pics on their website, I should have it any day.

Had Empre delivered my rifle within 18 months, I would have immediately ordered a 300 H&H from them, and I would rave about how great they are to anyone who cared to ask.

The problems these custom guys have is their own making. If you can't deliver and you take people's money, the orders will stop coming in.

If you deliver what you promise you will have a job for life.

George has made a lot of excuses to me over the years and he doesn't seem to realise the people who can lay down that kind of money are most likely business owners themselves, and excuses don't cut it.

Last I looked Empire was gong to be at the Dallas Safari Club show. If it was me, I would be bookng a trip to Dallas next week.....

29 December 2010, 07:27

Caretaker

sorry eezerider for hjacking the thread - an email has been sent to the Exec Director of DSC regarding Empire. While no DSC member(s) have been harmed, our responsibility also is to the protection of our day visitors. I.f there's hanky panky, it will not be under our watch,in our halls.

If you have legitimate complaint, pleae call Ben Carter at 972-980-9800. He has the link to this --thread. your proactivity in this matter may facilitate "something". Did any of you buy your guns or begin the gun purchase at a dsc show? This type of information would be vital in determining a course of action (if any).

I hope to see or meet many of you while you are in town. I am local. My cell #is 972-567-3704

Caretaker

29 December 2010, 16:23

Jim in MI

I have no plans to take time off from work to go to Dallas or Reno and argue with George.

I have never started a thread bashing Empire, I only reply to the persons asking about them.

The good written about Empire certainly outweighs the bad, but unfortunately my experience has been the bad one.

29 December 2010, 17:56

Sandmann

Men: Empire makes our own rifles, using practices similar to our peers; in many respects, better than many of them. If there is any confusion on this point, please feel free to drop me a line @ george.sandmann@empirerifles.com

Cheers,

George Sandmann
President, Empire Rifles

29 December 2010, 18:19

eezridr

Breaking away from DG guns. You can source a beautiful FOX SXS from Tony Galazan and receive it within a year made exactly to your specifications and be fitted properly. They make the actions from scratch. Makay Brown advertises they will ship their double shotguns and rifles within a year. These type guns take a bit more time to piece together than a bolt gun. Seems these other folks are just lacking good business practices or are under financed.
Another issue is being vertically integrated in manufacturing or being reliant on outsourced parts. Being vertically integrated and well run always helps in production planning but is not always the least expensive method to produce a product.
Of all the companies discussed, they are began with a real passion for our industry and pastime. All were hunters with honorable intentions!

EZ

30 December 2010, 00:53

JabaliHunter

quote:
Originally posted by Sandmann:
Men: Empire makes our own rifles, using practices similar to our peers; in many respects, better than many of them. If there is any confusion on this point, please feel free to drop me a line @ george.sandmann@empirerifles.com

Cheers,

George Sandmann
President, Empire Rifles

Dear Mr Sandmann
Thank you for your post. There doesn't appear to been any confusion - there is no point saying that you are as good or better than others if you cannot deliver a product in a timely manner for comparison. For goodness sake man, call a spade a spade and stop trying to cloud the issue!
Kind regards
JH

30 December 2010, 21:22

McKay

quote:
Originally posted by Sandmann:
Men: Empire makes our own rifles, using practices similar to our peers; in many respects, better than many of them. If there is any confusion on this point, please feel free to drop me a line @ george.sandmann@empirerifles.com

Cheers,

George Sandmann
President, Empire Rifles

your peers actually deliver what they have sold.

03 January 2011, 06:00

bradhe

George owes me money as well

03 January 2011, 06:16

TSEMP

George,
Are you going to reply to these posts? Do you owe them money and have you taken over 4 years to deliver a gun to them? I am a little concerned as I was looking at you as a possible build but reading this will not take the chance or will give it more time. I would suggest that if it is not true, you clear it up as I am sure others are wanting to know the truth to all this. Please do us all a favor and respond so it can be made clear one way or another. I personally would be as upset as they are if this had happened to me.

-Tony

14 January 2011, 03:12

Empire375

Hi TSEMP

I didnt realise that I had so much company with regards to Empire Rifles and now I have stumbled upon this forum and this thread in particular.
I am extremely concerned that I have lost a lot of money

Bob

14 January 2011, 09:45

nopride2

I bought a in stock rifle from Empire. Asked for a change in sights and a glass stock. Can youn deliver the rifle in 6 months? Yes. They stalled and made excuses for months. In the end I asked for a refund, which they remitted. They did have the use of my money for better than 5 months. Needless to say, I'm not too impressed.

Dave

14 January 2011, 19:30

TSEMP

Empire 375.

It is George Sandmann at Empire that people are having problems with. Who are you Rob and yes if your are related to the dealings with Empire, you have lost a lot of work and money and customers! Can't do business like this period.

14 January 2011, 20:17

Jim in MI

George sent me a PM 2 weeks ago saying they had delivered "scads of rifles to DCC members in the last year" (I'm not one) and my rifle "was virtually finished" (no pics).

Anyone see Empire at DSC?

14 January 2011, 20:57

TSEMP

Will empire be at SCI Reno?

19 January 2011, 23:34

McKay

I emailed this thread to George on January 3rd and told him he might want to give us an update. He emailed me right back and said that he was going to do so....Appears he is incapable of keeping his word on anything.

19 January 2011, 23:44

Express_Rifles

I know Mr.Sandman and the crap that is flying about him I dont believe half first off who pays 100% upfront noone 2nd People wait years to have rifles built its part of buying a custom opposed to an off the shelf rilfe and finally George has called me from his home while he was cooking brekfast with his children on his off day so Mr.Sandman is good people to me has never let me down nor some of his high profile clients who will not be named

20 January 2011, 01:11

Jim in MI

quote:
Originally posted by Express_Rifles:
I know Mr.Sandman and the crap that is flying about him I dont believe half first off who pays 100% upfront noone 2nd People wait years to have rifles built its part of buying a custom opposed to an off the shelf rilfe and finally George has called me from his home while he was cooking brekfast with his children on his off day so Mr.Sandman is good people to me has never let me down nor some of his high profile clients who will not be named

Thanks for calling me a liar. I paid 100% down in November 2006. Try getting George to refute that fact.

The 2nd and 3rd custom I had built I paid zero down and paid full balance on delivery, they were done by Bachelders in Grand Rapids MI

4th rifle I had built was $1000 deposit and the rest on delivery, which was Grizzly Custom/Lew Bonitz.

You'll excuse me if I don't offer to send you my American Express recepits.

20 January 2011, 01:48

TwoZero

quote:
Originally posted by Express_Rifles:
I know Mr.Sandman and the crap that is flying about him I dont believe half ... blah blah ...I like him... Blah blah...

Mr. Sandman has posted on this very thread - had an opprotunity to deny or refute what was being said, and did neither.

Sooner or later every business gets a complaining customer that can't be made happy no matter what you do. Fine. But what is it now for empire rifles?? 3 or 4 and counting???

There's a big difference between a lone loud voice with an axe to grind, and a pattern of bad service and broken promises...

.

20 January 2011, 02:00

Jim in MI

Also, I didn't start this thread, nor did I start the thread on Africa Hunting forums.

People ask about our experiences with Empire and I tell them mine. That isn't an axe to grind, that is honest feedback.

20 January 2011, 04:19

jorge

Did Swift go under? I guess when the TSX came out it put pay to a lot of them. Too bad, my 375 H&H and my 416 Rigby loved the A Frames. jorge

20 January 2011, 06:28

Charles_Helm

quote:
Mr.Sandman is good people to me has never let me down nor some of his high profile clients who will not be named

How about the low-profile ones?

20 January 2011, 06:45

eezridr

Swift is doing fine. They were at the DSC. They are a boutique company and have changed hands since their inception like the others initially mentioned.

quote:
Originally posted by jorge:
Did Swift go under? I guess when the TSX came out it put pay to a lot of them. Too bad, my 375 H&H and my 416 Rigby loved the A Frames. jorge

21 January 2011, 02:57

Empire375

Anybody who has been dealing with George Sandmann at Empire Rifles can contact me here

www.empireriflesvictims.com

I have been taken and would like the contact details for other in the same boat.
Lets get our money back !

21 January 2011, 04:35

TSEMP

Empire won't be in business long. This type of action will get him banned from the dsc and SCI events as well. I would think that someone should contact DSC and tell what is going on. This is not a company they will wish to represent. The fact that George knows about these links but refuses to speak to these owners is bad. Funny, call him under a different name and tell him your interested in building a rifles with a deposit and he is all ears.

21 January 2011, 06:08

J_Zola

Wow! This is not going to help business http://www.empireriflesvictims.com/

21 January 2011, 17:32

Sandmann

Gentlemen: Good morning. Bob is clearly frustrated. His rifle is near completion, as are several others. These three years of recession have taken a bite. We are focusing our efforts on making rifles, and are turning them out one fine rifle at a time. Bob's rifle will be completed as soon as we are able; we have many projects to consider and the interests of all of our customers in mind.

Thanks to our friends who alerted me to this post, appreciate your loyalty.

We have several new projects for our customers to consider, including the new Empire 99, the MDPR, and the latest Special Order Rifle made on commercial actions, a gorgeous custom rifle made to our exacting specifications.

We are sitting our the DSC and SCI this year, focusing efforts on existing orders.

Thanks all, --George Sandmann, President, Empire Rifles

21 January 2011, 20:47

onefunzr2

quote:
Originally posted by eezridr:
Ever notice how the upper end boutique companies many of us rely upon have a difficult time making a go of it?
Kimber (Oregon)
Dakota
North Fork
Barnes
Swift
Rigby Cal.
PH actions

All these companies make excellent products however all have fallen on hard times and either closed up shop or had to sell out.

I don't understand why Barnes Bullets is on the list. I have never read that they are seeing hard times.

Randy and Coni sold out, is what it tells me. With Nosler, and Hornaday entering the solid copper bullet market, Barnes' share of the market has only one way to travel...down. Smart move by Coni and Randy, it was time to sell. I hope they enjoy their retirement.

26 January 2011, 06:02

McKay

So if I am reading this right Empire is spending time and effort in launching new products instead of delivering past due projects? Brilliant....

01 February 2011, 19:43

surfscoter

quote:
Originally posted by Sandmann:
Gentlemen: Good morning. Bob is clearly frustrated. His rifle is near completion, as are several others. These three years of recession have taken a bite. We are focusing our efforts on making rifles, and are turning them out one fine rifle at a time. Bob's rifle will be completed as soon as we are able; we have many projects to consider and the interests of all of our customers in mind.

Thanks to our friends who alerted me to this post, appreciate your loyalty.

We have several new projects for our customers to consider, including the new Empire 99, the MDPR, and the latest Special Order Rifle made on commercial actions, a gorgeous custom rifle made to our exacting specifications.

We are sitting our the DSC and SCI this year, focusing efforts on existing orders.

Thanks all, --George Sandmann, President, Empire Rifles

George,

You are a bad business man and a bad conman. You tried to rip me off and finally after the last straw and me telling you I was filing a law suit against you you paid me. You know who I am, it took you two payments to pay me back my money. It only took me one payment to pay you in full. I hope you fall from grace you are truly a POS.

George you knew you had problems with getting the rifles out to your customers. Why in the hell would you try coming out with even more products you can't deliever on? Because you are a conman.

To the guy that posted he and some well known people have recieved their rifles. Of course they did they are the ones that gave George the good advertising. But if you are not famous or have something that George sees he can use forget about it.

I hope you get it stuck to you like you stuck it to use. Never forget what comes around goes around George.

Try getting intouch with George with problems all you will get is message service. Try calling him to place an order, he will surely answer that call.

02 February 2011, 04:57

jorge

Sounds like a Hein Redux moment, but at least you guys are getting your money back. For me, never again will I buy a custom bolt from anybody/

02 February 2011, 07:49

gumboot458

$8500.oo is far too much to pay and not immediatly receive your goods in hand. Could you imagine someone paying $8500:for heating fuel and not getting it by winter. Or for years .. I guess it is an indicator of the times .

02 February 2011, 08:45

Sandmann

Interesting. Work on delivering rifles and you are a crook. Refund a deposit and you are a con man.

We are indeed offering our services to the market. Accurizing, rebarrel/rechamber, feed and function, custom stock work, metal finishing. We will also custom build a complete rifle on your action. We routinely receive requests to provide these services, and have formalized. It is simply good business in this economy.

I don't know of any famous people getting deals on rifles, must be another company. We have received some great reviews, for which we are grateful, but no one gets to the front of the line on fame. We have lent some rifles, usually borrowed from customers, and they have been well received. Now I know this is not a crime.

We are building and delivering gorgeous, accurate rifles from lightweight sheep rifles to big bore DGRs, one rifle at a time. This economy isn't making life easy for any of us, but we are at the bench every day.

Call any time, 603.469.3152, glad to discuss.

Thank you all, --George Sandmann, President, Empire Rifles

02 February 2011, 09:16

Express_Rifles

quote:
$8500.oo is far too much to pay and not immediatly receive your goods in hand. Could you imagine someone paying $8500:for heating fuel and not getting it by winter. Or for years .. I guess it is an indicator of the times .

.If it can,t be grown , its gotta be mined ....

Im going to guess you've never or never will do business with Fabbri shotguns in Italy where its 75k plus for a shotgun with a 5 year wait and they have people who will wait 5 years without even an email and even through the ecnomic down time they still are booked.